Testing & Troubleshooting TP & MAME Games with Alien Gun

[dgrace13]

Hello, I thought I would start a discussion on where people are at with testing all the popular MAME, TP & PC games using Alien Guns. I figured we could share ideas, txt files, troubleshooting tips, etc. That way we hopefully can try and troubleshoot and test together before needing to bother 6bolt. Below is my latest progress. I've gotten most games' recoil working pretty smoothly on the alien guns. 6bolt is already aware of some issues on the latest release (v1.1.3c) with Term2 (MAME) and potentially a few other MAME light gun games and is already working on fixing a few bugs. Those of you with Alien guns, let me know if you've had better luck with any of the issues mentioned below. Thanks

-Alien 3 (MAME): Works better now in v1.1.3c; but still has issues (frequent skips in recoil ... doesn't slow down when power goes down, etc.)
-Aliens Armageddon: Recoil works perfectly
-Beast Busters (MAME): Recoil works; but has occassional skips.
-Beast Buster 2 (second nightmare): No outputs are showing up. Had the same issue with mamehooker. Maybe the exisint outputs haven't been emulated yet? Hopefully one day. Game is way fun. Plays much better on the latest MAME.
-Carnevil: No Recoil. Not sure if output support is emulated yet??
-Dark Escape4d: Recoil works perfectly
-Deadstorm Pirates: Recoil works perfectly
-Darkons Realm Keepers: Recoil works perfectly
-Dream Raiders: Recoil works, but has occasional skips. Still way more improved over mamehooker. Didn't even work with mamehooker (required keystates, which suck IMO).
-Gaia Attack4: Recoil works perfectly
-Ghostbusters: Recoil seems to work fine. Can be a tad inconsistent, but not sure what the original arcade recoil felt like.
-Gunblade NY (SegaModel2): Recoil works perfectly
-HOT4: Recoil works perfectly (didn't work at all in mamehooker .. required keystates).
-HOT4Special: Recoil works perfectly
-HOTD SD: Recoil works, but seems a little spotty. Need to test more.
-Jurassic Park (Teknoparrot): Recoil works, but seems to skip frequently. Not sure if it's a HOTR issue or game output issue, since it's skipped occcasionly using mamehooker as well.
-Jpark (MAME): No recoil. Not sure if outputs are fully functional
-LA Machineguns (Supermodel): Recoil works perfectly.
-Laser Ghost (MAME): Recoil works perfectly
-Lets Go Island 3D: Recoil works perfectly (but had to make a few minor tweaks to txt file ... see attachment).
-Lets go Jungle: Recoil works, but skips frequently. Not sure if this is a game output issue or HOTR, since it skipped as well using mamehooker.
-Lets Go Jungle Special: Recoil works perfectly, but unfortunately teknoparrot stil needs to improve emulation. Regular Let's go Jungle, recoil works better, but then you don't have full widescreen or 1080p, plus sound issues. Trade offs?
-Line of Fire (MAME): Recoil not working for me. It goes off of lamp output so not sure if the txt files needs some more tweaking. I'll keep testing.
-Mechanized Attack (MAME): Recoil works, with occasional skipping. Recoil speed is off. Should be much faster. Works perfectly with mamehooker.
-Nerf: Recoil worked perfectly. Had to make a few tweaks to the txt file (see attached txt file).
-The Ocean Hunter (Supermodel): Recoil works perfectly.
-Operation Ghost: Recoil works perfectly
-Operation Thunderbolt: Recoil doesn't work for me. Just shoots one shot and stops. I had the same problem with mamehooker so not sure if it's a HOTR issue or maybe I have a bad rom dump. Need to keep testing.
-Operation Wolf: Recoil works perfectly
-Plants vs. Zombies Last Stand:No HOTR txt file exists yet. Not sure how to create and name it?
-Point Blank X: Recoil works perfectly
-Rabbids Hollywood: Recoil works perfectly
-Rambo: Recoil works, but is a bit spotty and skips a lot. This game has rapid shooting (similar to HOT4) so hard to keep up with recoil. Probably need to tweak like HOTD4. I'll keep testing.
-RevolutionX (MAME): Recoil works, but skips a lot. Something is off. Works perfectly with mamehooker.
-Sailor Zombie: Recoil works perfectly
-Sega Golden Gun: Recoil works perfectly
-FrighfearLand: Recoil works perfectly
-Space Gun (MAME): Recoil works perfectly
-Terminator 2 (MAME): Recoil worked perfectly in v1.1.3, but now skips all over the place in latest v1.1.3c.
-Terminator Salvation: Recoil works really well overall. Has sporadic skipping though. Need to keep testing.
-Transformers H.A.: Recoil works perfectly
-Transformers S.R.: Recoil works perfectly
-Walking Dead: Recoil works perfectly
-Wild West Shootout: Recoil works perfectly

[6Bolt]

Just want to add a few things.

1. I put a delay recoil onto the Alien Light Gun, to protect it's solenoid, since it has a longer solenoid travel time. The default recoil delay time is 75ms. So when it gets the recoil command, it starts the timer, and doesn't allow any recoil to go through, until the timer clears. I chose this time to be really safe, Not having an Alien Gun to test things out, I went with a higher time. If you think the Alien Gun can handle more recoils, you can lower the delay recoil time in the 'Edit Light Guns' window. The minimum for the delay recoil is 40ms. So if you enter anything under 40, it might complain, or just change it back to 40, If people think the Alien Light Gun can go below 40ms, I can change that too.

2. The delay recoil can easily be causing the skips on some games. Especially if the game has fast recoil. A good game for fast recoil is HOTD4. If you did want to test out lowering the recoil delay, HOTD4 might be a good choice. I saw the Alien Gun play HOTD4 with no delay recoil, and it is definitely too fast in my opinion. But maybe with a recoil delay of 50ms or 60ms might be better than the 75ms.

3. To make a game file is pretty easy with HOTR. If there is no game file or default file, both in DefaultLG side and MH INI side, then HOTR will make a new game file, with all the Output Signals that it observed during the game play. Now that a file is created, the user will have to add the player number and commands to the certain Output Signals. This is the hard part, of knowing what signals do what. My other program, LGTCPTester, might be useful, as it displays and logs the Output Signals.

4. For Operation Thunderbolt, the shooting once, is a classic sign that the Output Signal is tied to a rumble motor. As HOTR will only do a recoil on the 0 -> 1 transition, The recoil command might need to be switched from 'Recoil' to 'Recoil_R2S'. You can observe the recoil Output signal from HOTR. When you press the trigger down, and the recoil signal goes to 1, and stays a 1, until releasing the trigger. Then that is definitely a rumble motor recoil signal.

[dgrace13]

1. Thanks for the tips. I tried 'Recoil_R2S 40' for Aliens3 and that seemed to work much better. It could probably go lower IMO. But 40 seemed to be a much better and more consistent recoil. You just have to release the trigger every 2-3 seconds. Otherwise it slows down, which i'm pretty sure is the point.
2. I'll keep testing.
3. I just got PVZ working. Attached is the txt file for anyone who wants it. Also attached is the working LGi3D txt file.
4. You were right about Operation Thunderbolt. Adding Recoil_R2S did the trick. Works pretty smoothly now. Thanks a bunch!

lgi3d.txt

othunder.txt

pvz.txt

[dgrace13]

Made some Progress with Rambo. The recoil is so fast, it's hard not to have a skip. This is where I'm at so far. Let me know if someone else is able to test.

:P1_GunRecoil
*P1

Recoil_R2S 125
:P2_GunRecoil
*P2
Recoil_R2S 125

rambo.txt

[dgrace13]

Pretty sure I got Sega Dream Raiders working perfectly on the alien gun. 100 works well too, but feel 125 was a good sweet spot.

:P1_GunMotor
*P1

Recoil_R2S 125
:P2_GunMotor
*P2
Recoil_R2S 125

sdr.txt

[6Bolt]

Thanks for all the work that you are doing. If you didn't see, I plan on changing the delay recoil. Moving it from the Light Gun code, to the Hooker Engine.

Also, if you do change the recoil delay, Hook Of The Reaper needs to be re-started for the change to take affect. I will fix this too in the v.1.1.4 release, so a re-start is not needed.

Glad to hear that Operation Thunderbolt is working now.

[dgrace13]

Sounds great. Happy to help test. Thanks for all your hard work. Look forward to the next release.

[6Bolt]

Oh, forgot to mentioned. The lowest percentage you can use for Recoil_R2S is 30, in the game file. So 30% of 100ms is 30ms. If you go under 30, it will just make it 30. There is no top limit.

Also, you can change the main time for Recoil_R2S. It is located in the alienUSB.hor file, in the data directory. If you open the file, you should see 'Recoil_R2S=100 0201'. The 100 is the 100ms. You can change it around, but have to be careful. On v1.1.3c, the Alien Gun has the delay recoil protection. So it cannot make the recoil too fast. But if change for other light gun, in the other .hor files, then it might damage those light guns. Every light gun has it's own .hor file, with the Recoil_R2S. Currently, everything is set to 100ms.

[6Bolt]

I got the delay recoil into the Hooker Engine. It is working good, and tested with my RS3 Reaper. In the code, I enabled the delay recoil for the Reaper light guns. I tested Alien 3, Terminator 2, and Let's Go Jungle Special. All the games I am using Recoil_R2S at 100% or the default 100ms. The delay recoil is set to 75ms. At first, I set the delay recoil to 200ms, and played HOTD4. To verify that the delay recoil is working by the slow recoil. Once that was verified, I tested the other games. If I have some time tonight, I will try to get some game play of Alien 3 and Terminator 2. Then post it up on YouTube.

[6Bolt]

Got the video done. Link below.

https://youtu.be/nktPuXufviE

[dgrace13]

Looks like solid progress. Can't wait to test the next version. Thanks

[dgrace13]

Testing from v1.1.4. I'm only going to list games that still need some troubleshooting or have made progress:
-Alien3 (MAME): This actually works great now IMO. You'll get smooth recoil for about 3-4 secs and then you'll need to release the trigger, or it will start to slow down, which i'm pretty sure is the point.
-BeastBusters (MAME): The recoil honestly feels kind of clunky. Not as smooth and consistent as just using regular mamehooker. I'll keep playing around with the txt file to see if I make any progress.
-Dream Raiders (TP): Works perfectly with gunmotor command change. Use attached .txt file
sdr.txt

-GaiaAttack: Works with updated txt file
gattack4.txt

LGI3D: Works okay with CtmRecoil command. But better and smoother with P1_GunMotor instead.
lgi3d.txt

Line of Fire: There was no default txt for this game so I created one. Works perfect now.
loffire.txt

Mechanized Attack (MAME): Works pretty well now. But still doesn't feel right. Feels kind of clanky. Was a little smoother and cleaner using mamehooker. I'll keep messing with the settings.

Rambo: Works better now. Even better switching to the :P1_GunRecoil command.
rambo.txt

-RevX (MAME): Recoil is better, but still skips a little. I'll keep testing.
-Term2 (MAME): Recoil is better, but still sounds inconsistent and not smooth. I posted more info in the issues section.

[oddeye45]

Just so that I understand this...where it says "game X works perfect" I am assuming that this means someone has got the recoil functions to work on the game using the Aliens guns? If this is the case, could any information be shared in regards to how this was achieved? Specifically, I am referring to games such as Dark Escape or Deadstorm Pirates as I have not gotten any outputs (recoil or even moving the cursor) to work with these titles (or any title on RPCS3/Namco 357).

Similar problems are seen on my end with all Supermodel/Model 3 titles.

TThe software you have created is fantastic by the way. It has worked flawlessly on everything I have tried so far apart from the two emulators mentioned above and Dolphin. I had the Aliens guns working with Dolphin on Mamehooker but it doesn't seem to want to work with HOTR. I will continue tinkering to see if I can figure it out.

[6Bolt]

---

Just so that I understand this...where it says "game X works perfect" I am assuming that this means someone has got the recoil functions to work on the game using the Aliens guns? If this is the case, could any information be shared in regards to how this was achieved?

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It means that the recoil matches the game recoil, or close as it gets. Since we are not using the original hardware for the game. As many arcade games used a large rumble motor for recoil, instead of a solenoid, which many at home light guns use. To get @dgrace13 timings, you can download his game files, which he has attached. The are in blue color, with the .txt ending.

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Specifically, I am referring to games such as Dark Escape or Deadstorm Pirates as I have not gotten any outputs (recoil or even moving the cursor) to work with these titles (or any title on RPCS3/Namco 357).

Similar problems are seen on my end with all Supermodel/Model 3 titles.

---

That is the classic sign that something is not set-up right. Best way is to not use scripts, and do it old school. Once you have it working, then update the scripts. Beyond that, I cannot help with debugging emulators. I know it works with RPCS3, as I have played Deadstorm Pirates and Dark Escape. I haven't tested out Supermodel, but know that @dgrace13 has got it working, along with bandicoot37.

@dgrace13

I agree wit you. I switched some games from 'Recoil' to 'Recoil_R2S', and like it better with 'Recoil_R2S'. I don't know if it is because it is showier, to match a LMG. But it is definitely smoother and all recoil sound the same. One game I tried was HOTD4, which has really fast recoil. But is seems better with 'Recoil_R2S', even with the slower recoil. Also, all the recoils sound the same. With 'Recoil' command using P1_CtmRecoil, it has off recoil cycles sometimes. Another game I tried was Let's Go Jungle Special. Same things, as the recoil just seems better. Maybe HOTR does a better job on timing than DemulShooter?

[6Bolt]

For Rail Chase 2, you can get my other program called LGTCPTester.exe. It is under 6Bolt, in a different repository. Run that program instead of HOTR. It displays, and can log Output Signals. When using it with Rail Chase 2, you can look out for the recoil signal, which should toggle when you hold down the trigger. If you find an Output Signal that just goes high when you hold down the trigger, you can use that signal with Recoil_R2S.

For Mission Impossible, it sounds like recoil is connected to a recoil rumble signal, which goes high when you hold the trigger down. I would switch the '>Recoil' command in game file to '>Recoil_R2S'. The R2S stands for rumble to solenoid, so it converts a recoil rumble signal to a recoil solenoid signal.

Also, all the game files will work with all the supported light guns. That is the beautiful thing about HOTR, as the game files are independent of the light gun. The timing might not be perfect for other light gun, but will work fine, and will not damage other supported light gun.

[dgrace13]

FYI, I didn't notice any difference in the recoil changing the command to '>Recoil_R2S' for mission impossible. But that's just me. Here is a working txt file for mission impossible for alien guns using recoil and ammo count, if anyone needs it.
misimp.txt

[dgrace13]

@oddeye45 Not sure if you're doing something wrong with the RPCS3 games. Below is the txt files for Sailor and Dark Escape. They worked great for me. I've had issues in the past getting those 3 RPCS3 games work with the alien guns and demulshooter. I suggest going through the demulshooter troubleshooting options. https://github.com/argonlefou/DemulShooter/wiki/System-357

FYI, usually removing/recreating PPU cache for each game, reinstalling the demulshooter PPU cache files, and then restarting the game, fixed it for me. I hope this helps.
sailorz.txt
de4d.txt

[dgrace13]

@oddeye45 After doing some testing with LGTCPTester.exe and looking into it, it appears railchase2 does not have recoil outputs. See demulshooter link below. It might be one of those games where the only way to get recoil working is if you use the mamehooker keystates option (which is not ideal IMO). Not sure what else to do.
https://github.com/argonlefou/DemulShooter/wiki/Outputs
log.txt

[6Bolt]

I wanted to follow up on Rail Chase 2. I contacted Argon with DemulShooter, to see if I get get the controller data. The good thing that I can get the controller data from DemulShooter. Below, is the Issue I filed on DemulShoooter, and where Argon talks about how to get the controller data.

argonlefou/DemulShooter#315

When I do Advance Features, I wil put this into Hook of the Reaper. So then, HOTR will now the status of the trigger. This will solve the problem with Rail Chase 2. Then Rail Chase 2 will have recoil and damage.