Can I run zstash without conda?

[forsyth2]

Asked by @ndkeen. #288 also records the suggestion for a stand-alone mode.

[forsyth2]

Suggestions from @mahf708:

• https://github.com/conda-forge/zstash-feedstock/blob/main/recipe/meta.yaml#L14:

build:
  number: 0
  script: "{{ PYTHON }} -m pip install . --no-deps -vv"
  noarch: python

requirements:
  host:
    - python >=3.6
    - pip

  run:
    - python >=3.6
    - six
    - globus-sdk >=3.0.0,<4.0.0
    - fair-research-login >=0.2.6,<0.3.0

• "This means you need a python above 3.6 and the three dependencies available at runtime (note that you can likely get these from anywhere, e.g., PyPI). If you do python -m pip install . in the root of the zstash repo, pip will get them for you from pypi"

• dependencies "were removed from zstash repo. Please do the following as an extra step (before/after): python -m pip install 'globus-sdk>=3.0.0,<4.0.0' 'fair-research-login>=0.2.6,<0.3.0".

• Users can refer to https://e3sm-project.github.io/zstash/_build/html/main/tutorial.html (this uses an older version of zstash), following the non-HPSS steps.

[mahf708]

I generally think a "stand-alone mode" differs from "running without conda" --- conda is really just a package manager that places packages in one place. Nothing more than that.

If I understood what Noel was after, I think the need is to have a zstash package available on the fly without having to deal with a conda installation. The only other feasible alternative is to simply have zstash be available on pypi. I cannot think of any other possibility here, but I could be wrong. Converting zstash to a true standalone program will be way too much work and probably isn't sustainable (even if achievable).

**

I think having zstash available on pypi is not a bad idea. I will list the pros and cons as I envision them.

Pros of having zstash on pypi:

• relatively easy to do and quickly (I could do it in ~10 mins or less if there is a sufficient need)
• will be an accessible option for people wanting to quickly use zstash without having to use the managed conda environments; if available on pypi, pip install zstash will get one a highly likely (see cons next) functioning zstash relatively quickly

Cons of having zstash on pypi:

• harder to test and maintain inter-operability especially if the package is to grow in sophistication
• if testing is a must (i.e., if zstash maintainers want to ensure the same quality with the conda package), then that's more maintenance burden and packaging overhead that someone will have to take as part of their tasks

**

I general, I will say the following.

1. I think having zstash on pypi can be a good option here and it could be made easier for maintainers.
2. We may want to invest in a little piece of docs showcasing how easy it is to get a "conda" setup up and running. We have to be honest in that they are real shortcomings of using conda for everything (sometimes things break and are hard to debug, and in general, it is a community effort). However, as I always say, conda is superior to anything else I'm familiar with and I encourage everyone to set up their own personal conda setup (we have many variants and some, like micromamba, are both fast and light)

[xylar]

I don't think having zstash on pypi solves any problems. You need to install from pypi instead of conda, which is often just as tricky, and maybe worse for binary packages.

I still feel like creating conda environments is just a trick of the trade like using git that folks need to get used to.

[xylar]

I am working on installing E3SM-Unified on frontier right now. Hopefully, that will preclude the need for "standalone" zstash. Which in my view is not really going to be possible anyway.

[forsyth2]

Thanks @xylar!