Issue with Ableton and midi "feedback"

[nicolasvair]

Hi,

This was first posted in the BLE-midi repo here.

First thank you for this fantastic repo. I'm doing a "4 knobs" wireless controller using encoders and led ring.

The idea is to be able to control a parameter from various devices and have led feedback on each of them. The other being midi fighter twister is also based on encoders and led rings.

I came across a strange behavior, if arduino is connected to computer through BLE-midi, I have a strange behavior on ableton parameters mapped to midi CC. Not sure how to describe it, it is jerky.

Enregistrement.de.l.ecran.2024-04-14.a.13.28.17.mov

Important to note, this is independent of my code. I can upload a bare minimum code for connecting, and still have the issue. Even without :
MIDI.setHandleControlChange(OnControlChange);
For example I have the issue with this code :

#include <BLEMIDI_Transport.h>
//#include <hardware/BLEMIDI_ESP32_NimBLE.h>
//#include <hardware/BLEMIDI_ESP32.h>
//#include <hardware/BLEMIDI_nRF52.h>
#include <hardware/BLEMIDI_ArduinoBLE.h>
#include "Arduino_BMI270_BMM150.h"

BLEMIDI_CREATE_DEFAULT_INSTANCE()

unsigned long t0 = millis();
bool isConnected = false;

void setup()
{
// MIDI INIT
MIDI.begin();

pinMode(LED_BUILTIN, OUTPUT);
digitalWrite(LED_BUILTIN, LOW);

BLEMIDI.setHandleConnected( {
isConnected = true;
digitalWrite(LED_BUILTIN, HIGH);
MIDI.sendControlChange(1, 1, 1);
});

BLEMIDI.setHandleDisconnected( {
isConnected = false;
digitalWrite(LED_BUILTIN, LOW);
});

}
void loop()
{
MIDI.read();
}

Maybe related to how the arduino send a "confirmation" of the received CC from ableton ?
When I look into details, ableton sends values like : 24, 25, 27, 22, 29, 32, 35 ...

But it only happens with this device and this repo. I thought it may be related to bluetooth latency first, but I don't have any issue using TouchOsc on iPhone... so lathoub advised to post here.

Any hints where to look at ?

Thank you 🙏

[nicolasvair]

bump

[franky47]

Could you try a wired connection -- MIDI DIN (with Thru off) or USB -- to rule out an issue in the Bluetooth stack?

[nicolasvair]

Hi, thank you for your answer

I tried USB by adding :
#include <USB-MIDI.h>
USBMIDI_CREATE_DEFAULT_INSTANCE();

But I get the following errors :

• #error MIDIUSB can only be used with an USB MCU.
  and #error "Unsupported architecture"

I'm using a arduino nano ble sense, it seems that it can't act as general compliant usb device (not sure I understood all of it).

From what I checked rapidly, using DIN midi would require buying octocouplers and electronics..

Do you have any other idea how to try usb or din ?

Or maybe ther ie another test that I could do before diving into this ? A "debug" or "verbose" to check what packages are sent and come back but at a lower level than midi ?

I suspect it is the "confirmation" of received message sent by computer or midi device but I don't know if it works like this.

[nicolasvair]

Hi,

So it seems to be related to midi thru...

I'm not sure if the issue is related to BLE-midi or forty-seven

If I try a MIDI.turnThruOff(); before or after MIDI.begin(MIDI_CHANNEL_OMNI); it doesn't disable the thru.

My post in BLE-midi is here
lathoub/Arduino-BLE-MIDI#87

It is a real bummer because Ableton sees it as a feedback loop and disable all automation...

[franky47]

Indeed, Thru doesn't make sense for non-serial transports. @lathoub I remember you added a way to dictate whether Thru was enabled or not per transport?

[lathoub]

I remember you added a way to dictate whether Thru was enabled or not per transport?

Correct, thruActivated is set per library. Serial MIDI (this library)

arduino_midi_library/src/serialMIDI.h

Line 54 in 2d64cc3

static const bool thruActivated = true;

In packet based overrides (aka packet based protocol), thruActivated is set to false;

https://github.com/lathoub/Arduino-AppleMIDI-Library/blob/e0abb86dee1c7cc09574eae3e3fad09fd4785810/src/AppleMIDI.h#L151

https://github.com/lathoub/Arduino-BLE-MIDI/blob/929c2fc04962672ddba903a618601bea44ee1f3e/src/BLEMIDI_Transport.h#L55

So in BLE MIDI, MIDI Thru is disabled, and MIDI notes should not be echoed.

[nicolasvair]

Thank you for your answers.

Maybe dumb question but what about midi CC ? My issue is with midi CC.

Also following lathoub advices on this post, I used this branch.

Thank you