From 90703cbec2a2897afd28f2d01ae15bb7e3283546 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Ryan Burgess Date: Sat, 14 May 2022 11:03:02 -0700 Subject: [PATCH 1/3] start episode 151 --- content/episode-list.json | 2 +- content/episodes.json | 99 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++- 2 files changed, 99 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-) diff --git a/content/episode-list.json b/content/episode-list.json index 8102421e..4b15c7ba 100644 --- a/content/episode-list.json +++ b/content/episode-list.json @@ -1 +1 @@ -[{"episode":"001","title":"The State of Web Development","description":"For our very first episode of the Front End Happy Hour podcast, we have our panelists (Augustus Yuan, Derrick Showers, Jem Young, Ryan Anklam and Ryan Burgess) discuss their opinions on the Medium article posted in early January, titled \"The Sad State of Web Development\", written by Drew Hamlett. The panel shares their thoughts on front end tools and how they view the current state of web development.","published":"February 29, 2016"},{"episode":"002","title":"RxJS - Async and Drink","description":"In the second episode of the Front End Happy Hour podcast, our special guest, Ben Lesh joins us to talk about all the great things in RxJS 5.","published":"March 16, 2016"},{"episode":"003","title":"From head to footer","description":"In this ever changing industry of front end development, developers are constantly learning. In this episode of Front End Happy Hour we discuss everything from our school backgrounds and what lead us to front end development. We also share ways we stay up to date with the ever-changing landscape of new technologies. Along with our usual panelists, we are joined by guest Sarah Showers, a front end developer from Apple.","published":"March 24, 2016"},{"episode":"004","title":"ES6 and a Six Pack","description":"ECMAScript 6 was a major release for the JavaScript language. There’s a lot of great new features that have been added. In this episode we discuss how you can start using ES6 today and what we’ll start seeing in the next year for the latest update to ECMAScript. We share our favorite features and the best ways to learn and stay up to date with new features.","published":"April 04, 2016"},{"episode":"005","title":"Interviews make us drink","description":"In order to work professionally as a front end developer, there is always an intense interview process. In this episode, we share our experiences and thoughts on the interviews we’ve done in the past. Not only have we had experience being interviewed, we’ve also had a lot of experience interviewing other engineers for jobs at our companies. We share things we’re looking for when we interview candidates to join our teams.","published":"April 14, 2016"},{"episode":"006","title":"Unit testing and whiskey tasting","description":"We’ve all heard unit testing is good, but how do you get started writing unit tests? In this episode of Front End Happy Hour we share our experiences and advice writing unit tests. We discuss why it’s important and beneficial to have unit tests in your JavaScript. We share how we’ve approached unit tests and what a good unit test looks like. We also talk about the various tools and frameworks available to get your code properly tested.","published":"April 25, 2015"},{"episode":"007","title":"a11y Cocktail","description":"In this episode, we have a special guest joining us to talk about digital accessibility, Jennison Asuncion who is a leader in the accessibility community and has a lot of information to help us improve our websites and applications be more accessible for all users. We also talk about Global Accessibility Awareness Day (GAAD) coming up on May 19th. Find out how you can participate.","published":"May 15, 2016"},{"episode":"008","title":"A Shot of Silicon Valley","description":"Working in Silicon Valley is very unique. We work in a bubble, immersed in technology. There are billboards about frameworks, technology, and gadgets. Coffee shops are filled with people on Macbooks covered in stickers. Conversations on the train, coffee shops and on the streets are about programming languages. There’s a unique culture from other places we’ve all lived. In this episode, we share our thoughts and experiences living and working in Silicon Valley.","published":"May 24, 2016"},{"episode":"009","title":"Scotch makes us animated","description":"In this episode we learn about animating with JavaScript. We’re joined by a special guest, Sarah Drasner, who is an expert in JavaScript and SVG animations. Having good animations in your product is really important for the overall user experience. In the episode we discuss various libraries to help create animations in your websites or applications. Sarah shares a lot of valuable information.","published":"June 6, 2016"},{"episode":"010","title":"Raise your glass to women in tech","description":"In the technology industry we’re continually trying to grow the diversity of people who are working in the space. Most recently there have been a lot of great efforts made to increase the number of women in tech. In this episode we are joined by two talented women working at large tech companies in the Bay Area, Lisa Burgess (Uber) and Mars Jullian (Netflix). We discuss what it’s like to be a women working in tech and talk about ways we can help foster a more inclusive industry.","published":"July 12, 2016"},{"episode":"011","title":"Transpilers - slow down and drink","description":"Leveraging transpilers is extremely helpful in allowing us to extend the JavaScript language in ways JavaScript engines cannot. There are a lot of amazing transpilers available in the JavaScript community and we all love transpilers, but there are things developers should be aware of when we’re using transpilers.","published":"July 27, 2016"},{"episode":"012","title":"Ninja Rockstar Whiskey Drinker With 10 Years IPA Experience","description":"As an engineer or developer we currently fortunate enough to have a wide selection of amazing jobs and companies to work for. Although we have a wide selection of jobs, finding the right one is extremely important and may require some additional work. In this episode, we are joined by the guests Chrissy Running and Alayna Ketner who are both talented recruiters at Netflix. Chrissy and Alayna have a lot of experience working with engineers to help find the ideal role. We’ll discuss types of things companies are looking for and how you can best leverage competitive offers in your job searches.","published":"August 8, 2016"},{"episode":"013","title":"Drinking in the present to learn future JavaScript","description":"In episode 13 of the Front End Happy Hour podcast, we’re joined by Jafar Husain from Netflix to talk with us about the future of JavaScript. Jafar is part of the TC-39 committee that helps determine the future specs of ECMAScript. Jafar shares a lot of interesting insights into how the committee works and how a feature makes it's way into the spec. Jafar also talks to us about Observables and cancellable promises.","published":"August 17, 2016"},{"episode":"014","title":"Hangovers and hotels: engineer conferences","description":"Conferences continue to be a great way to learn and grow as an engineer. In the 14th episode of the Front End Happy Hour podcast we discuss the value of conferences and why you might want to attend. It’s a special episode because we recorded at React Rally in Salt Lake City. At the conference we caught up with a lot of great attendees and speakers to hear about their experiences at conferences and the benefits for attending.","published":"August 28, 2016"},{"episode":"015","title":"A flight of JavaScript frameworks","description":"In the JavaScript community, we have a lot of amazing frameworks that help us in our day to day work. It can be at times overwhelming to understand what framework is the best one to use. In this episode, we discuss our thoughts and opinions on the various frameworks.","published":"September 12, 2016"},{"episode":"016","title":"Spilled beer and epic fails","description":"As an engineer we build things, but we also make mistakes or introduce bugs into the software we write. In this episode, we share horror stories of things that we’ve experienced in our careers and how we’ve learned from them. Hopefully, this episode helps you avoid making similar mistakes.","published":"September 25, 2016"},{"episode":"017","title":"Managing our drinks","description":"In this episode, we are joined by Chris Saint-Amant from Netflix to help discuss what it’s like to transition from being an engineer to becoming an engineering manager. We share our thoughts on what engineers expect in their manager and share advice for engineers interested in moving into a management role.","published":"October 13, 2016"},{"episode":"018","title":"Shotgunning websites: web performance","description":"Users are extremely sensitive to web performance. The slightest change in a website’s load time can impact a user staying or going. In this episode we talk about ways to help improve web performance and why it’s so important.","published":"October 29, 2016"},{"episode":"019","title":"Drinking to digital nomads","description":"The idea of working remotely has become more realistic over the past few years, making it easier for engineers to do their work without being tied to a physical location. In this episode, we are joined by Darren Buckner, Founder and CEO of Workfrom, and Sarah Showers from LinkedIn. Both guests will join us to discuss the pros and cons of working from your favorite coffee shop.","published":"November 7, 2016"},{"episode":"020","title":"Wasted on workflows","description":"We are lost without our tools. In this episode, we share the tools and applications we can’t live without. We discuss what development environments we use and plugins we find useful.","published":"November 20, 2016"},{"episode":"021","title":"Mixed drinks and Mixed languages","description":"Have you had to deal with supporting more than one language in your web application? Offering content in several languages makes a better experience for your users but it can add many layers of complexity in your application’s design and architecture. In this episode we’ll be discussing the ways we have dealt with supporting multiple languages.","published":"December 5, 2016"},{"episode":"022","title":"Drinking with more style and less sass","description":"Writing CSS seems pretty straight forward until your project and team starts to grow. CSS has a lot of issues, in this episode we share some advice for making it a little bit easier. We’ll also discuss ways to create a scalable CSS architecture for large projects and teams.","published":"December 16, 2016"},{"episode":"023","title":"Ember - Gin & Tomster","description":"Ember is a growing JavaScript framework that large companies like LinkedIn are using for their web application. In this episode, we are joined by Stacy London from Atlassian to discuss the advantages and disadvantages of leveraging Ember as a JavaScript framework.","published":"December 30, 2016"},{"episode":"024","title":"The hangover of 2016","description":"As we look forward to all the great trends and changes that will happen in 2017, in this episode we discuss our thoughts and opinions on the various development trends and notable things that happened in 2016. Looking forward on 2017, we share some of the things we’re excited to see in the new year.","published":"January 15, 2017"},{"episode":"025","title":"From bar-back to frontender","description":"We’ve all started out somewhere in our career. In previous episodes, we’ve talked about various ways we’ve learned front end development, but haven’t touched on mentorship. In this episode, Sarah Showers joins us in the conversation about starting out as a junior developer and how mentors helped shape us into senior developers.","published":"January 24, 2017"},{"episode":"026","title":"Design, neat","description":"In this episode, we’re joined by Julie Horvath, a Design Lead at Apple to help us talk about design. We discuss ways to help improve the collaboration between designers and frontend developers. Julie shares her perspective on building great user experiences for low-bandwidth internet speeds and how taking a progressive enhancement approach can be beneficial to the user.","published":"February 7, 2017"},{"episode":"027","title":"A drink for the \"Rust\" of us","description":"Rust is an exciting systems programming language that’s being developed in Mozilla. In this episode, we’re joined by Jafar Husain to talk about the Rust and what the benefits of leveraging a language like Rust. We also talk about why a JavaScript engineer would want to learn Rust and how it can help them in their JavaScript coding.","published":"February 15, 2017"},{"episode":"028","title":"JavaScript Universi-LongIslandIce-ty","description":"We’ve all started somewhere. JavaScript isn’t always an easy language to learn. In this episode, we’re joined by Gordon Zhu, who teaches workshops on JavaScript at Watch and Code. We are also joined by Luis Vargas, a Senior Manager on Global Payments at Netflix who has recently been learning JavaScript and has attended one of Gordon’s workshops. In this episode, we all talk about our journey of learning JavaScript and ways we’ve worked through it.","published":"February 26, 2017"},{"episode":"029","title":"Alcoholic Angular","description":"In this episode, we’re joined by our special guest, Ayşegül Yönet, a Software Engineer Autodesk, who will help us discuss the popular Google JavaScript framework Angular. In the episode, we discuss the benefits of leveraging Angular and what the major differences are from Angular 1 and Angular 2.","published":"March 12, 2017"},{"episode":"030","title":"Static site generators and dynamic drink drinkers","description":"Websites have gotten a lot more complicated over the years. What happened to static HTML? In this episode we’re joined by Harry Wolff, the creator of Reptar, to talk about leveraging build tools to create static generated sites. We talk about the pros and cons of leveraging a static site generator for a website. We also discuss some of the tools available to help you get started.","published":"March 24, 2017"},{"episode":"031","title":"A flaming shot of burnout","description":"Burnout is not a rare phenomenon that engineers deal with. In this episode, we talk about the ways we’ve been affected by burnout and how we’ve dealt with it. We discuss past experiences that have created burnout for us and ways we can prevent it from happening in the future.","published":"April 9, 2017"},{"episode":"032","title":"Imposter Syndrome - These are not the drinks you're looking for","description":"What’s it like to deal with Imposter Syndrome? In this episode, we are joined by Jessica Grist, a Software Engineer at Adroll to discuss how we’ve all experience Imposter Syndrome in our careers and share ways to help deal with it.","published":"April 23, 2017"},{"episode":"033","title":"One part beer, three parts web components. Add lemon to taste","description":"In this episode, we are joined by Trey Shugart who is a front-end developer (Principal Developer) at Atlassian, proponent of web components, and author of SkateJS to talk about Web Components.","published":"May 7, 2017"},{"episode":"034","title":"npm install beer --save-in-mouth","description":"In this episode, we are joined by Laurie Voss, the COO and former CTO at npm. Npm, also known as Node Package Manager has been an important tool in the JavaScript community and has helped engineers share their code. In today’s episode, we’ll be discussing how we leverage npm and find out what we can expect from npm 5. Laurie also teaches us some cool tricks that exist in the npm cli.","published":"May 22, 2017"},{"episode":"035","title":"Top shelf style guides","description":"In this episode, we’re joined by Jyri Tuulos and Josh London to help discuss reusable components and building style guides. Jyri is a Staff Engineer at AdRoll and Josh is a Senior Designer at Netflix. We discuss best practices companies are leveraging style guides and reusable components. We also share the positives and negatives to having a style guide.","published":"June 4, 2017"},{"episode":"036","title":"First drink at a new bar","description":"Starting a new job is never easy, but a good onboarding process can make all the difference. In this episode, we talk about our experiences with onboarding at companies we’ve worked at and share our thoughts on what makes a good experience when starting a new job.","published":"June 18, 2017"},{"episode":"037","title":"Amazing Manhattans Anywhere","description":"We’ve received a lot of great questions from our listeners and wanted to take the time to answer them as an AMA (Ask Me Anything) episode. Thank you all for the great questions, we had a lot of fun answering them.","published":"July 5, 2017"},{"episode":"038","title":"Plotting our drinks","description":"In this episode, we’re joined by Shirley Wu, a Freelance Software Engineer who focuses on Data Visualization. Shirley shares a lot of knowledge about Data Visualization using JavaScript.","published":"July 17, 2017"},{"episode":"039","title":"Smashed after a Swift shot","description":"In this episode, we’re joined by Stefan Stumpfl, a mobile software engineer at LinkedIn working on LinkedIn Learning. During the past 5 years as an iOS developer, he has experience ranging from building his own app on a small 2-person team to larger teams like his current role at LinkedIn. In this episode, we will discuss the Swift programming language – how it compares to languages like Javascript and some of the advantages and disadvantages to writing and learning it.","published":"July 30, 2017"},{"episode":"040","title":"React Native - Mix Once, Drink Everywhere","description":"In this episode, we’re joined by Naoufal Kadhom, a Software Engineer from Netflix who’s also just released a payment library for React Native. In the episode, we’ll be discussing React Native and what it’s like to leverage it for Android and iOS applications.","published":"August 14, 2017"},{"episode":"041","title":"Maintaining a healthy buzz","description":"Maintaining and scaling code is an important aspect of our careers. In this episode, we discuss and share ideas to help keep a healthy code base that will scale with your company.","published":"August 27, 2017"},{"episode":"042","title":"Work hard, drink hard","description":"There’s always a lot to be done, but having a good work life balance is extremely important. In this episode, we are joined by Sarah Showers from LinkedIn, to talk with us about work life balance. We share our thoughts on what work life balance means to us and how our companies help foster a healthy work life balance.","published":"September 13, 2017"},{"episode":"043","title":"Our first drink","description":"We all had to start somewhere. In this episode, we are joined by Preethi Kasireddy to talk with us about her and our experiences of being a beginner to coding.","published":"October 1, 2017"},{"episode":"044","title":"Champagne ideas and caviar dreams","description":"Writing great code isn’t always the only part of our jobs. In order to impact changes on our teams or the business, we need to be able to persuade others to buy into your ideas. This could be in the form of migrating to a new technology, process or even adding a new feature to a product. In this episode, we are joined by Shirley Wu to help us discuss how we can best sell our ideas and make an impact on our teams or clients.","published":"October 15, 2017"},{"episode":"045","title":"Getting the bartender's attention","description":"In a previous episode, we discussed working with a recruiter during a job interview process. In this episode, we’re joined by Netflix recruiter, Bianca Bortolussi to discuss ways to help your engineering profile stand out to recruiters and hiring managers.","published":"October 29, 2017"},{"episode":"046","title":"Locking down the liquor","description":"In this episode of the Front End Happy Hour podcast, we discuss how as front end engineers we can impact security vulnerabilities in the applications and websites we are creating.","published":"November 14, 2017"},{"episode":"047","title":"Speak(easy)","description":"Often times in our careers we’ve wanted to speak at conferences, meetups or even within our companies. It’s been a great way to share ideas and things we’ve learned. Giving a tech talk isn’t always the easiest thing. In this episode, we’ll be discussing what we’ve learned from our experiences and share advice on ways to help improve your next talk.","published":"November 26, 2017"},{"episode":"048","title":"Toast to a new year","description":"It’s been a great year! With 2017 coming to an end, we’ve decided to talk the highlights, trends, and disappointments of the year. We also talk about what we’re excited about in 2018.","published":"December 18, 2017"},{"episode":"049","title":"Independent taste testing","description":"We are back in 2018, for the first episode of the New Year we have two special guests, Shirley Wu and Amy Wibowo to talk with us about freelancing and running your own business. We discuss how to start freelance work, how to manage clients and how to handle difficult clients.","published":"January 21, 2018"},{"episode":"050","title":"Angling for a drink","description":"For our 50th episode, we are on stage live at the 2018 ngATL conference. We are joined by four of the talented speakers, Aimee Knight, Simona Cotin, John Papa, and April Wensel to talk about the state of Angular.","published":"February 5, 2018"},{"episode":"051","title":"Gin and toxic culture","description":"In this episode, we’ll be discussing things we’ve noticed in companies that have unhealthy culture, shady business practices, moving business targets and more. We talk about ways to avoid an unhealthy culture and how to help improve one.","published":"February 18, 2018"},{"episode":"052","title":"Looking Forward to a drink","description":"In this episode, we recorded live on stage at Forward JS conference in San Francisco. We were joined by our special guest, Allen Wirfs-Brock to talk about how the web has changed over the years and how JavaScript has been a large influence.","published":"March 4, 2018"},{"episode":"053","title":"Bar-tending to your codebase","description":"In this episode, we recorded live at SacJS event in Sacramento, California. On stage, we discuss the challenges of migrating a codebase and when to make the decision its the right time to refactor. We share lessons we’ve learned from past experiences.","published":"March 18, 2018"},{"episode":"054","title":"Wasted on Elm","description":"In this episode, we are joined by Richard Feldman to talk about the functional language Elm, which compiles to JavaScript. In the episode, we learn about the benefits to leveraging Elm and how to get started.","published":"April 1, 2018"},{"episode":"055","title":"A mixologist's tools","description":"In this episode, we discuss how we stay productive in our jobs. To help us with the discussion, we’re joined by Ellen Chisa, CEO, and Cofounder of Dark. We talk about tools and strategies we’ve found useful to help stay productive.","published":"April 16, 2018"},{"episode":"056","title":"Drink-a-thon onstage at Reactathon","description":"In this episode, we were live on stage at Reactathon conference in San Francisco discussing how to scale a React application. We share our thoughts on to best approaches to creating a good structure for your codebase at scale. We also share our experiences we’ve learned over the years how to scale our React applications.","published":"April 29, 2018"},{"episode":"057","title":"Falcor - Modeling our drinks","description":"In this episode, we’re joined by the Netflix Software Engineer, Anup Bishnoi to talk with us about the Netflix, open source, virtual JSON graph library, Falcor.","published":"April 13, 2018"},{"episode":"058","title":"User testing - Even a drunk person can do it","description":"A lot of the work we do impacts the people using the product or application we’ve made and it’s important to understand how our users resonate with the products we create. A great way to better understand what works for a user is by doing user testing. In this episode, we’ll be discussing user testing.","published":"May 28, 2018"},{"episode":"059","title":"A/B testing - Ale or Bourbon?","description":"In our previous episode, we talked about user testing and to better understand how a product or application resonates with users. In this episode, we’re joined by Lisa Burgess to help talk with us about another great way to get user feedback, A/B testing.","published":"June 10, 2018"},{"episode":"060","title":"Shots to growlers - finding the right size drink","description":"In this episode, we are joined by Shirley Wu and Brian Holt to talk with us about the various experiences we’ve had with startups, large companies, agencies, and freelance work.","published":"June 24, 2018"},{"episode":"061","title":"Build tooling - brewing complex bundles","description":"The front end ecosystem of build tooling continues to grow and become more powerful over the years. In this episode, we’re joined by Jamie Kyle and Maia Teegarden to talk with us about the power of build tools.","published":"July 8, 2018"},{"episode":"062","title":"Web Components - Shots of shadow dom","description":"In this episode, we talk with Ravi Srinivas and Erick Purino from Netflix to share how they are leveraging Web Components to create dynamic advertisements across the web.","published":"July 22, 2018"},{"episode":"063","title":"IoT - Internet of Tequila","description":"In this episode, we share our thoughts on IoT and smart devices in the home. We also talk about how JavaScript can be used to create your own smart devices. To talk with us about the smart devices, we’re joined by our guest, Sarah Showers from LinkedIn.","published":"August 5, 2018"},{"episode":"064","title":"Librations - JavaScript libraries","description":"In this episode, we’ll be discussing JavaScript libraries. We talk about when to use a library and when it might not be that practical.","published":"August 19, 2018"},{"episode":"065","title":"Recruiting - do you have time for a quick beer?","description":"We’ve had a lot of great recruiting discussions on previous episodes. In this episode, we’re joined by 3 recruiters, Matt Stephenson, Zack Skelly, and Chris Ahsing from 3 different startups to talk with us about how to stand out as an engineer, and what questions to ask recruiters about opportunities.","published":"September 2, 2018"},{"episode":"066","title":"Type systems - a static drink list","description":"Static type systems in JavaScript provide a lot of value and have been growing in popularity. In this episode, we’re joined by Lauren Tan and Kunal Bohra to talk with us about the benefits of leveraging a type system in your codebase.","published":"September 16, 2018"},{"episode":"067","title":"Ethics - to drink or not to drink?","description":"In this episode, we recorded a special live discussion on ethics in software development. The panel discussion was part of Certified Fresh Events with host Brian Rinaldi.","published":"September 30, 2018"},{"episode":"068","title":"Progressive Web Apps - Pale Wheat Ale","description":"Progressive Web Apps have been hailed as the next big leap forward in building web applications. In this episode we’re joined by Aaron Gustafson from Microsoft to talk all about PWA’s and the future of the web.","published":"October 14, 2018"},{"episode":"069","title":"Internships - Intern-sips","description":"Starting your career is a daunting task. You’ve learned these brand new skills, but how do you apply them and get experience? In this episode, we are joined by Moira Huang, to help us talk about internships and how best leverage an internship into a full time job.","published":"October 28, 2018"},{"episode":"070","title":"Senior Engineer - Master Brewer","description":"We are often asked, what makes you a Senior Software Engineer. It’s not an easy answer, there are a lot of interesting thoughts and responses. In this episode, we are joined by Lauren Tan to help discuss our thoughts on what makes someone be a Senior Software Engineer over a Software Engineer.","published":"November 25, 2018"},{"episode":"071","title":"Web Performance - Chugging our drinks down fast","description":"Creating performant websites and applications continue to be more and more important. In this episode, we are joined by Addy Osmani to talk with us about web performance and some future web platform APIs that help improve performance.","published":"December 9, 2018"},{"episode":"072","title":"Pacing our drinks - Engineering Performance","description":"Creating performant websites and applications continues to be really important, but what about engineering performance? How do we make sure we are improving our productivity as engineers? In this episode, we are joined Jacques Favreau and Michael Paulson from Netflix to hear more about their thoughts on being more productive.","published":"January 6, 2019"},{"episode":"073","title":"Drinks to go - Native mobile solutions","description":"There are a lot of great solutions available to support a native mobile experience for your application, but what’s the best option? In this episode we are joined by Jordanna Kwok from Netflix, to talk with us about some of the solutions and how to think through the best solution.","published":"January 20, 2019"},{"episode":"074","title":"Beer money - negotiating salaries","description":"We’ve talked about interviewing for engineering jobs, but once you have an offer, how do you negotiate the salary? In this episode, we’re joined by Matthew Gerstman, an engineer from Dropbox to talk with us about salaries, and stock.","published":"February 3, 2019"},{"episode":"075","title":"Component libraries - sharing our drinks","description":"In this episode, we are joined by Jeeyun Linn, and Cole Turner to talk with us about building and using component libraries in a company.","published":"February 18, 2019"},{"episode":"076","title":"Bandersnatching our drinks","description":"Bandersnatch is an exciting Netflix interactive film that’s not only an amazing story, it has seamless experience that Netflix engineering teams have created. In this episode, we are joined by engineering managers, Maria Kazandjieva, Maxine Cheung, and Courtney Kennedy to talk about the work their teams have done to make Bandersnatch possible.","published":"March 3, 2019"},{"episode":"077","title":"Career growth - beers and careers","description":"In past episodes, we’ve shared our thoughts on helping others grow or how to help interns in your company, but we haven’t discussed our thoughts on our own career growth. In this episode, we’ll share our thoughts and opinions on career growth.","published":"March 31, 2019"},{"episode":"078","title":"Our drinking is overrated","description":"In this episode, Jem and Ryan each toss out frontend terms, languages, technologies, and patterns to debate if they are underrated or overrated.","published":"April 14, 2019"},{"episode":"079","title":"Home-brewing front end culture","description":"In this episode, we are joined by Katie Sylor-Miller, a Staff Software Engineer from Etsy, to talk with us about ways to help build and foster a frontend culture within your companies.","published":"April 28, 2019"},{"episode":"080","title":"User experience - what if users are drunk?","description":"In this episode, we are joined by Randall Koutnik, a Senior Software Engineer at Slack to talk with us about how we should be thinking about ways to build better user experiences.","published":"May 14, 2019"},{"episode":"081","title":"CSS - continually sipping sazeracs","description":"In this episode, we are joined by Tyler Childs, a Senior Software Engineer at Netflix to talk with us about building out scalable CSS and share some of the exciting new features in the latest version of CSS.","published":"May 26, 2019"},{"episode":"082","title":"Product management - Pouring Martinis","description":"In this episode, we’re joined by product managers, Michael Spiegelman, Cathy Conk, and Eddy Wu from Netflix to talk with us about the relationship between engineers and product managers.","published":"June 9, 2019"},{"episode":"083","title":"Behind the bar - Collaborating with the Backend","description":"In this episode, we are joined by Ujjwal Tyagi and Eric Eiswerth to talk with us about how Backend and Frontend engineers can be most effective collaborating.","published":"June 23, 2019"},{"episode":"084","title":"Niagara Falls, on the rocks - development process","description":"There are quite a few ways to organize a team to build out a new feature. Two of the most talked-about are Waterfall and Agile. In this episode, we’ll be talking through the pros and cons of some of the development processes we’ve encountered.","published":"July 21, 2019"},{"episode":"085","title":"The art of mixology - creative coding","description":"In this episode, we are joined by a returning guest, Shirley Wu to talk with us about the combination of code and art.","published":"August 4, 2019"},{"episode":"086","title":"A new brand of bourbon - code migrations","description":"We’ve all faced some form of code migration in the past and wanted to share some of the things we’ve learned. In this episode, we’re joined by Micah Ransdell, a Software Engineering Manager at Netflix to talk with us about migrating a codebase.","published":"August 18, 2019"},{"episode":"087","title":"Open bar - all things open source","description":"As engineers we have a lot of excellent tools and resources to help us do our jobs well, one of those resources is open source code. In this episode, we will be talking about all things open source.","published":"September 15, 2019"},{"episode":"088","title":"Tech lead engineer - herding cats & drinks","description":"We often talk a lot about growth paths as engineers. One of those growth paths could be a tech lead engineer. In this episode, we are joined by Tony Edwards to help talk with us about what the role and responsibilities of a lead engineer are.","published":"September 29, 2019"},{"episode":"089","title":"Hollywood Martinis - Netflix Studio Engineering","description":"In this episode, we are going to be talking with Priyankaa Vijayakumar and Lauren Tan about an interesting engineering effort their teams at Netflix are working on. Netflix continues to create its own content and Hollywood is an interesting world with a ton of opportunities for engineering to integrate technology to make things more efficient. Priyankaa and Lauren will be telling us more about those engineering challenges.","published":"October 27, 2019"},{"episode":"090","title":"Sipping our drinks, enjoying the Vue - Vue JS","description":"In this episode, we are joined by Sarah Drasner and Gift Egwuenu to talk with us about the popular JavaScript framework, VueJS.","published":"November 24, 2019"},{"episode":"091","title":"Balancing your drinks & belonging - Inclusion & Diversity in Tech","description":"It is really important to make sure our community is an inclusive environment for everyone to feel like they belong. In this episode, we are joined by Cher and Henry Zhu to talk with us about inclusion and diversity.","published":"December 8, 2019"},{"episode":"092","title":"Keeping the taps on - Holiday code freeze","description":"Happy Holidays! In this episode, we talk about supporting large applications over the holidays and what the best practices are in order to make sure your customers have 100% availability over the holidays.","published":"December 22, 2019"},{"episode":"093","title":"Beers and Careers - Career Management","description":"It can be really important to think about what you want in your career. In this episode, we are joined by Michael Gaskill to talk with us about career management.","published":"January 5, 2020"},{"episode":"094","title":"Will code for wine - Civic hacking","description":"It’s always great to be able to put our skills to good use. In this episode, we are joined by Sarah Yu to talk with us about civic hacking.","published":"January 20, 2020"},{"episode":"095","title":"Shot for Shot - One on Ones","description":"As engineers, we spend a lot of our time coding, but we also spend a lot of time in meetings. A typical meeting we are in is one on one meetings. In this episode, we talk about ways to get the most out of one on one meetings and avoid having bad ones.","published":"February 16, 2020"},{"episode":"096","title":"Our preferred beverages - Work preferences","description":"There’s a constant debate on what the preferred work environment is, in office, remote, or work from home. In this episode, we talk about our preferences and some of the pros and cons of each work option.","published":"March 1, 2020"},{"episode":"097","title":"Cocktail recipes - Design systems","description":"In this episode, we recorded live on stage at Root Insurance in Columbus, Ohio. We were joined by Jibran Kutik and Oliver Farshi to talk with about design systems and how engineers and designers collaborate.","published":"March 15, 2020"},{"episode":"098","title":"Drinking alone? Together? - Working from home","description":"With the COVID-19 situation, we are all confined to our homes. In this episode, we thought it’d be an excellent opportunity to talk through our experiences working from home during this time.","published":"March 20, 2020"},{"episode":"099","title":"No REST with Quintessential Libations - GraphQL","description":"In this episode, we are joined by Shruti Kapoor to talk with us about GraphQL and why your company could benefit from leveraging GraphQL on the front end and the back end.","published":"March 29, 2020"},{"episode":"100","title":"100 beers on the wall","description":"This is our 100th episode, it’s an exciting milestone for the podcast. In this episode, we talk about the history of the podcast and talk about some of our favorite moments and episodes.","published":"April 12, 2020"},{"episode":"101","title":"Showing off our personal bars - Personal projects","description":"We all focus a lot of our time on engineering work for large companies, but we’ve each had our side projects we’ve worked on in our careers. In this episode, we share our side projects we’ve done in the past.","published":"April 26, 2020"},{"episode":"102","title":"Complex flavors - complex systems","description":"We’ve all been there, a project starts off simple, but quickly becomes more complex. In this episode, we are joined by Sarah Drasner to talk with us about how to deal with complex codebases and systems.","published":"May 10, 2020"},{"episode":"103","title":"Brews in Bars - Ecosystem Engineering","description":"In this episode, we learn more about Ecosystem Engineering from Netflix engineers, Michael James, and Shravan Heroor.","published":"May 24, 2020"},{"episode":"104","title":"#BlackLivesMatter","description":"Instead of listening to an episode of Front End Happy Hour this week, we want to encourage you to use the hour to check out educational materials about the long history of structural racism and injustice Black people continue to face as well as learn how you can be actively anti-racist to affect real change. In our show notes, we’ve provided a list of picks that includes podcasts, videos, books, and articles available for you to learn more. The list of resources will be in the show notes. Simply put, Black lives matter.","published":"June 5, 2020"},{"episode":"105","title":"A parcel of drinks - Parcel","description":"In previous episodes, we’ve talked a lot about bundling JavaScript, but we haven’t talked a lot about Parcel. In this episode, we are joined by Maia Teegarden, Will Binns-Smith, and Devon Govett to talk with us about Parcel JS.","published":"June 14, 2020"},{"episode":"106","title":"Carefully Sipping Sangria - CSS","description":"Writing CSS is quick to learn, but writing strong CSS patterns that can scale is a lot more challenging. In this episode, we are joined by Brad Frost to discuss useful patterns in CSS and the future of CSS.","published":"June 28, 2020"},{"episode":"107","title":"Public speakeasy - Public speaking","description":"Whether you’re giving a presentation to a large audience at a conference, your team, or articulating an idea, public speaking is an important skill set. In this episode, we are joined by Anne Ricketts to talk with us to share ways to be a strong presenter.","published":"July 12, 2020"},{"episode":"108","title":"Whiteboarding for our drinks - The coding interview","description":"We’ve all been there, coding interviews always have their challenges. In this episode, we are joined by Emma Bostian to talk with us about the technical coding interview. We share our experiences and thoughts on what we like and dislike about the various coding interviews.","published":"July 26, 2020"},{"episode":"109","title":"Quick pour - Web Performance","description":"Web performance continues to be an input factor to prioritize when building web applications. In this episode, we speak with Google engineers, Kristofer Baxtor, and Jason Miller about the latest best practices in web performance.","published":"August 09, 2020"},{"episode":"110","title":"Bartending to everyone - Inclusive language","description":"Alongside the Black Lives Matter movement, we’ve started to see a lot of positive discussions on how the tech community can be more inclusive with its language. In this episode, we will be discussing our thoughts on making tech language more inclusive.","published":"August 23, 2020"},{"episode":"111","title":"Patron, Palomas, and programmatic problem solving","description":"When we are writing code as engineers, no matter what programming language, we are doing some form of planning and problem solving. In this episode, we are talking about programmatic problem solving with Nicole Archambault.","published":"September 6, 2020"},{"episode":"112","title":"SEO - Searching for our drinks","description":"Build it and they will come, right? Wrong. Search Engine Optimization is a key component of how people will discover your website or application. In this episode, we are joined by Netflix engineer, Cole Turner to talk with us about the importance of SEO and ways to improve your ranking in search engines.","published":"September 20, 2020"},{"episode":"113","title":"Severless - serving(less) drinks","description":"Do you remember the days of FTP? In this episode, we are joined by Jerome Hardaway to talk with us about the changes made to hosting websites and how serverless has improved the ways we serve up websites and applications.","published":"October 4, 2020"},{"episode":"114","title":"Remote interviewing - drinking on video calls","description":"When you can’t interview in person, we are forced to interview over video calls. In this episode, we are joined by Bianca Bortolussi, and Jen Pi to talk with us about what it’s like to interview for a new role during these covid times.","published":"October 18, 2020"},{"episode":"115","title":"Imposter Syndrome - Wine connoisseur with a $15 bottle","description":"What’s it like to deal with Imposter Syndrome? In this episode, we are joined by Shirley Wu, to talk through each of our experiences dealing with imposter syndrome and have we’ve overcome it.","published":"November 4, 2020"},{"episode":"116","title":"Live at QCon Plus 2020","description":"In this episode, we were joined by our guests, Ben Ilegbodu and Jason Lengstorf to discuss frontend patterns live at this year's QCon Plus conference. On the panel, we shared our thoughts on various frontend trends and patterns being used. We also took questions from the live QCon Plus audience.","published":"November 15, 2020"},{"episode":"117","title":"Quitting a job - leaving the bar","description":"We’ve all decided at one point or another that it’s time to look for a new job. In this episode, we talk through reasons that lead to us looking for new opportunities in our past jobs.","published":"November 29, 2020"},{"episode":"118","title":"Good manager, bad manager - tasty drink, bland drink","description":"In our last episode, we talked about leaving a job, and one of those reasons for leaving was due to a bad manager. In this episode, we follow up our discussion on what makes a good manager.","published":"December 20, 2020"},{"episode":"119","title":"2020 reflections - Fireball shots","description":"In this episode, we will be reflecting on the past year and how things have drastically changed for how we work and how our companies have had to adapt during a pandemic.","published":"December 31, 2020"},{"episode":"120","title":"Building side projects - Served with a tasty Sidecar","description":"In this episode, we are joined by Evan Payne to talk with us about how we each approach side projects. Evan also shares a side project he’s built in Angular.","published":"Jan 17, 2020"},{"episode":"121","title":"Transitioning to a new role - Bar hopping","description":"At some point or another, we’ve all had to move to a new role or a new company. In this episode, we are joined by special guests Tara Ellis and Jared Jordan to help us discuss things we’ve learned to help transition to a new role or job.","published":"January 31, 2021"},{"episode":"122","title":"Productivity Engineering - Ballmer Peak","description":"How do developer teams stay productive? In this episode, we are talking with Kathryn Koehler and Andy Glover from the Netflix Productivity Engineering team to learn more about what a Productivity Engineering team does to help improve productivity.","published":"February 14, 2021"},{"episode":"123","title":"Documentation - the bartenders' almanac","description":"How important is documentation? In this episode, we share our thoughts and opinions on how we approach documentation and the tools that have helped us. ","published":"February 28, 2021"},{"episode":"124","title":"Software estimating - two finger pour","description":"When it comes to estimating the time it takes to build any software project, it’s never easy. There’s a lot of factors that go into estimating. In this episode, we talk about our experiences with estimating and ways we’ve improved it over the years.","published":"March 14, 2021"},{"episode":"125","title":"Non-traditional backgrounds - Old Fashioneds with a twist","description":"Not everyone starts their engineering career with a Computer Science degree, there are a lot of ways to start an engineering career. In this episode, we are joined by David Simmer from Netflix to talk with us about non-traditional backgrounds.","published":"March 28, 2021"},{"episode":"126","title":"Core Web Vitals - Vital libations","description":"Optimizing websites for a quality user experience is key to the long-term success of any site on the web and Core Web Vitals is an initiative Google has provided as a unified guidance for quality signals that are essential to delivering a great user experience on the web. Addy Osmani and Kristofer Baxter, from Google, join us to talk more about Core Web Vitals.","published":"April 11, 2021"},{"episode":"127","title":"Writing a technical book - drafts on tap","description":"Our very own Shirley Wu and her friend, Nadieh Bremer recently wrote a book called, Data Sketches so we wanted to learn more about what it’s like to write a technical book. In this episode, we are joined by Nadieh to talk with us about the process of writing and having a book published. ","published":"April 25, 2021"},{"episode":"128","title":"Branding & self-promotion - mimosa and self-promosa","description":"As you build your career, it’s helpful to think about your personal brand and how you promote yourself in the industry. In this episode, we are joined by Alice Lee, to talk with us about how each of us approach branding and self-promotion.","published":"May 9, 2021"},{"episode":"129","title":"Allyship - Inviting everyone to the party","description":"A big way to help make a more inclusive tech industry, we need strong allies. In this episode, we are joined by Better Allies, Karen Catlin, to talk with us about allyship.","published":"May 23, 2021"},{"episode":"130","title":"Stack and infrastructure shaping culture - Drink choice to set the vibe","description":"In previous episodes we've talked about how to choose a technical stack and figure out what works best for you and your team. In this episode, we are joined by Jason Lengstorf to talk about how the choice of stack and infrastructure reflects the company culture.","published":"June 6, 2021"},{"episode":"131","title":"Diversity and inclusion - Tech(K)now Day","description":"This was a live panel discussion at the Tech(K)now Day conference that took place on March 8, 2021. We did a live episode with the conference organizer, Gen Ashley, who joined us to talk about diversity and inclusion in tech.","published":"July 4, 2021"},{"episode":"132","title":"Test Engineering - Beverage quality assurance","description":"Releasing a successful product in production requires testing. In this episode, we are joined by Preethi Sitaraman to talk with us about test engineering and how developers and test engineers can collaborate.","published":"July 18, 2021"},{"episode":"133","title":"It’s 5 o’clock somewhere - Joining a remote team","description":"With a lot of companies now hiring more remote employees, we wanted to talk about what it’s like to join a new team being fully remote. In this episode, we are joined by Laurie Barth and Lucero Carmona to share their thoughts on what the experience joining a remote team has been like.","published":"August 8, 2021"},{"episode":"134","title":"Individual contributor to manager - Transitioning into a bartender","description":"In this episode, we talk about what it’s like to go from an individual contributor engineer, to an engineering manager. With Jem recently moving into a manager role, Nazanin Delam and Dan DiGangi joined us to share more about their experiences moving into management.","published":"August 22, 2021"},{"episode":"135","title":"Dealing with burnout - Burnt Orange Campari","description":"Who’s ever had to deal with burnout? In this episode, we are joined by two guests, Vaidehi Joshi, and Eli to share their experiences dealing with burnout. We all share how burnout has shown up for us throughout our careers and how we’ve found ways to deal with it or prevent it.","published":"September 5, 2021"},{"episode":"136","title":"Old Fashioned, old roles, new beginnings","description":"It’s always hard to know when is the right time to make a career change. There’s likely never a perfect time, but in this episode, we talk about how we have made decisions and what’s worked and what hasn’t.","published":"September 19, 2021"},{"episode":"137","title":"One drink and a monolithic architecture","description":"We've often talked about micro-services and monolithic architectures on previous episodes. In this episode, we are joined by Katherine Peterson to talk with us about her experience working with a monolithic codebase.","published":"October 3, 2021"},{"episode":"138","title":"Bar debate - Smart homes","description":"If you've listened to past episodes, you've likely heard Ryan and Jem disagree about smart home devices or IoT. In this episode, the two of them have a friendly debate around their thinking of smart homes and what the pros and cons are.","published":"October 17, 2021"},{"episode":"139","title":"Preparing ingredients - Interview prep","description":"There’s no way around, at some point, you will likely be interviewing. Why not be prepared? In this episode, we share our thoughts and experiences interviewing and how we approach preparing for an upcoming interview for a new role.","published":"October 31, 2021"},{"episode":"140","title":"Crafting your cocktail mixture to learning","description":"In this episode, we are joined by Loren Sands-Ramshaw to talk with us about education paths for software engineers. There are so many options out there and it's really hard to know what's the right path to take.","published":"November 28, 2021"},{"episode":"141","title":"2021 Hangover","description":"Happy New Year! We are back with more episodes in 2022 and to start off the year, we want to reflect on changes that happened in 2021. In this episode, we cover technology changes, our lives, and our career changes that happened in 2021.","published":"January 9, 2022"},{"episode":"142","title":"Job hunting in 2022 - Standing out in a crowded bar","description":"Recruiting and interviewing isn’t a new topic, it’s one we’ve covered a few times, but this episode focuses on the changes that have happened with the landscape for jobs and interviewing during the pandemic. In this episode, we are joined by Taylor Desseyn, and Jono Grayson to talk with us about ways to stand out and navigate the job search in 2022.","published":"January 23, 2022"},{"episode":"143","title":"TypeScript migration - Strict type of cocktails","description":"Software Engineers deal with migrations at some point or another, and there are always a lot of lessons learned afterward. In this episode, we are joined by Sumana Mohan and Joe King from Netflix to talk about their recent migration to TypeScript on the Netflix website signup flow.","published":"February 6, 2022"},{"episode":"144","title":"Sidebar interview with Ryan Burgess","description":"Our sidebar interview specials interview our panelists individually to learn more about their backgrounds and careers. In this episode, we interview Ryan Burgess, the creator of the Front End Happy Hour podcast.","published":"February 20, 2022"},{"episode":"145","title":"Server Driven UI - Served from behind the bar","description":"What is server-driven UI and what are the advantages to taking this approach? In this episode, we are joined by the Netflix engineer, Cole Turner to talk with us about the advantages and disadvantages of server-driven UI.","published":"March 6, 2022"},{"episode":"146","title":"Sidebar interview with Jem Young","description":"Our sidebar interview specials interview our panelists individually to learn more about their backgrounds and careers. In this episode, we interview Jem Young, to learn more about his background and career.","published":"March 20, 2022"},{"episode":"147","title":"Debugging Asynchronous JavaScript - Awaiting My Drink","description":"Have you found debugging asynchronous JavaScript to be hard? You’re not alone. In this episode, we are joined by Jenn Creighton from Netflix to talk with us about a talk she’ll be giving at Reactathon on debugging async JavaScript to help make it a bit easier.","published":"April 7, 2022"},{"episode":"148","title":"Sidebar interview with Stacy London","description":"Our sidebar interview specials interview our panelists individually to learn more about their backgrounds and careers. In this episode, we interview Stacy London, to learn more about her background and career.","published":"April 24, 2022"},{"episode":"149","title":"Open source software with open liquor","description":"The tech industry relies a lot on open source software. In this episode, we are joined by Jesse Tomchak to talk with us about open source.","published":"May 8, 2022"},{"episode":"150","title":"Reorgs with a sip of spiced rum","description":"An organization going through a reorg is a normal evaluation to meet the needs of the business, but it can be a lot of change. In this episode, we talk about our experiences with reorgs.","published":"May 22, 2022"}] \ No newline at end of file +[{"episode":"001","title":"The State of Web Development","description":"For our very first episode of the Front End Happy Hour podcast, we have our panelists (Augustus Yuan, Derrick Showers, Jem Young, Ryan Anklam and Ryan Burgess) discuss their opinions on the Medium article posted in early January, titled \"The Sad State of Web Development\", written by Drew Hamlett. The panel shares their thoughts on front end tools and how they view the current state of web development.","published":"February 29, 2016"},{"episode":"002","title":"RxJS - Async and Drink","description":"In the second episode of the Front End Happy Hour podcast, our special guest, Ben Lesh joins us to talk about all the great things in RxJS 5.","published":"March 16, 2016"},{"episode":"003","title":"From head to footer","description":"In this ever changing industry of front end development, developers are constantly learning. In this episode of Front End Happy Hour we discuss everything from our school backgrounds and what lead us to front end development. We also share ways we stay up to date with the ever-changing landscape of new technologies. Along with our usual panelists, we are joined by guest Sarah Showers, a front end developer from Apple.","published":"March 24, 2016"},{"episode":"004","title":"ES6 and a Six Pack","description":"ECMAScript 6 was a major release for the JavaScript language. There’s a lot of great new features that have been added. In this episode we discuss how you can start using ES6 today and what we’ll start seeing in the next year for the latest update to ECMAScript. We share our favorite features and the best ways to learn and stay up to date with new features.","published":"April 04, 2016"},{"episode":"005","title":"Interviews make us drink","description":"In order to work professionally as a front end developer, there is always an intense interview process. In this episode, we share our experiences and thoughts on the interviews we’ve done in the past. Not only have we had experience being interviewed, we’ve also had a lot of experience interviewing other engineers for jobs at our companies. We share things we’re looking for when we interview candidates to join our teams.","published":"April 14, 2016"},{"episode":"006","title":"Unit testing and whiskey tasting","description":"We’ve all heard unit testing is good, but how do you get started writing unit tests? In this episode of Front End Happy Hour we share our experiences and advice writing unit tests. We discuss why it’s important and beneficial to have unit tests in your JavaScript. We share how we’ve approached unit tests and what a good unit test looks like. We also talk about the various tools and frameworks available to get your code properly tested.","published":"April 25, 2015"},{"episode":"007","title":"a11y Cocktail","description":"In this episode, we have a special guest joining us to talk about digital accessibility, Jennison Asuncion who is a leader in the accessibility community and has a lot of information to help us improve our websites and applications be more accessible for all users. We also talk about Global Accessibility Awareness Day (GAAD) coming up on May 19th. Find out how you can participate.","published":"May 15, 2016"},{"episode":"008","title":"A Shot of Silicon Valley","description":"Working in Silicon Valley is very unique. We work in a bubble, immersed in technology. There are billboards about frameworks, technology, and gadgets. Coffee shops are filled with people on Macbooks covered in stickers. Conversations on the train, coffee shops and on the streets are about programming languages. There’s a unique culture from other places we’ve all lived. In this episode, we share our thoughts and experiences living and working in Silicon Valley.","published":"May 24, 2016"},{"episode":"009","title":"Scotch makes us animated","description":"In this episode we learn about animating with JavaScript. We’re joined by a special guest, Sarah Drasner, who is an expert in JavaScript and SVG animations. Having good animations in your product is really important for the overall user experience. In the episode we discuss various libraries to help create animations in your websites or applications. Sarah shares a lot of valuable information.","published":"June 6, 2016"},{"episode":"010","title":"Raise your glass to women in tech","description":"In the technology industry we’re continually trying to grow the diversity of people who are working in the space. Most recently there have been a lot of great efforts made to increase the number of women in tech. In this episode we are joined by two talented women working at large tech companies in the Bay Area, Lisa Burgess (Uber) and Mars Jullian (Netflix). We discuss what it’s like to be a women working in tech and talk about ways we can help foster a more inclusive industry.","published":"July 12, 2016"},{"episode":"011","title":"Transpilers - slow down and drink","description":"Leveraging transpilers is extremely helpful in allowing us to extend the JavaScript language in ways JavaScript engines cannot. There are a lot of amazing transpilers available in the JavaScript community and we all love transpilers, but there are things developers should be aware of when we’re using transpilers.","published":"July 27, 2016"},{"episode":"012","title":"Ninja Rockstar Whiskey Drinker With 10 Years IPA Experience","description":"As an engineer or developer we currently fortunate enough to have a wide selection of amazing jobs and companies to work for. Although we have a wide selection of jobs, finding the right one is extremely important and may require some additional work. In this episode, we are joined by the guests Chrissy Running and Alayna Ketner who are both talented recruiters at Netflix. Chrissy and Alayna have a lot of experience working with engineers to help find the ideal role. We’ll discuss types of things companies are looking for and how you can best leverage competitive offers in your job searches.","published":"August 8, 2016"},{"episode":"013","title":"Drinking in the present to learn future JavaScript","description":"In episode 13 of the Front End Happy Hour podcast, we’re joined by Jafar Husain from Netflix to talk with us about the future of JavaScript. Jafar is part of the TC-39 committee that helps determine the future specs of ECMAScript. Jafar shares a lot of interesting insights into how the committee works and how a feature makes it's way into the spec. Jafar also talks to us about Observables and cancellable promises.","published":"August 17, 2016"},{"episode":"014","title":"Hangovers and hotels: engineer conferences","description":"Conferences continue to be a great way to learn and grow as an engineer. In the 14th episode of the Front End Happy Hour podcast we discuss the value of conferences and why you might want to attend. It’s a special episode because we recorded at React Rally in Salt Lake City. At the conference we caught up with a lot of great attendees and speakers to hear about their experiences at conferences and the benefits for attending.","published":"August 28, 2016"},{"episode":"015","title":"A flight of JavaScript frameworks","description":"In the JavaScript community, we have a lot of amazing frameworks that help us in our day to day work. It can be at times overwhelming to understand what framework is the best one to use. In this episode, we discuss our thoughts and opinions on the various frameworks.","published":"September 12, 2016"},{"episode":"016","title":"Spilled beer and epic fails","description":"As an engineer we build things, but we also make mistakes or introduce bugs into the software we write. In this episode, we share horror stories of things that we’ve experienced in our careers and how we’ve learned from them. Hopefully, this episode helps you avoid making similar mistakes.","published":"September 25, 2016"},{"episode":"017","title":"Managing our drinks","description":"In this episode, we are joined by Chris Saint-Amant from Netflix to help discuss what it’s like to transition from being an engineer to becoming an engineering manager. We share our thoughts on what engineers expect in their manager and share advice for engineers interested in moving into a management role.","published":"October 13, 2016"},{"episode":"018","title":"Shotgunning websites: web performance","description":"Users are extremely sensitive to web performance. The slightest change in a website’s load time can impact a user staying or going. In this episode we talk about ways to help improve web performance and why it’s so important.","published":"October 29, 2016"},{"episode":"019","title":"Drinking to digital nomads","description":"The idea of working remotely has become more realistic over the past few years, making it easier for engineers to do their work without being tied to a physical location. In this episode, we are joined by Darren Buckner, Founder and CEO of Workfrom, and Sarah Showers from LinkedIn. Both guests will join us to discuss the pros and cons of working from your favorite coffee shop.","published":"November 7, 2016"},{"episode":"020","title":"Wasted on workflows","description":"We are lost without our tools. In this episode, we share the tools and applications we can’t live without. We discuss what development environments we use and plugins we find useful.","published":"November 20, 2016"},{"episode":"021","title":"Mixed drinks and Mixed languages","description":"Have you had to deal with supporting more than one language in your web application? Offering content in several languages makes a better experience for your users but it can add many layers of complexity in your application’s design and architecture. In this episode we’ll be discussing the ways we have dealt with supporting multiple languages.","published":"December 5, 2016"},{"episode":"022","title":"Drinking with more style and less sass","description":"Writing CSS seems pretty straight forward until your project and team starts to grow. CSS has a lot of issues, in this episode we share some advice for making it a little bit easier. We’ll also discuss ways to create a scalable CSS architecture for large projects and teams.","published":"December 16, 2016"},{"episode":"023","title":"Ember - Gin & Tomster","description":"Ember is a growing JavaScript framework that large companies like LinkedIn are using for their web application. In this episode, we are joined by Stacy London from Atlassian to discuss the advantages and disadvantages of leveraging Ember as a JavaScript framework.","published":"December 30, 2016"},{"episode":"024","title":"The hangover of 2016","description":"As we look forward to all the great trends and changes that will happen in 2017, in this episode we discuss our thoughts and opinions on the various development trends and notable things that happened in 2016. Looking forward on 2017, we share some of the things we’re excited to see in the new year.","published":"January 15, 2017"},{"episode":"025","title":"From bar-back to frontender","description":"We’ve all started out somewhere in our career. In previous episodes, we’ve talked about various ways we’ve learned front end development, but haven’t touched on mentorship. In this episode, Sarah Showers joins us in the conversation about starting out as a junior developer and how mentors helped shape us into senior developers.","published":"January 24, 2017"},{"episode":"026","title":"Design, neat","description":"In this episode, we’re joined by Julie Horvath, a Design Lead at Apple to help us talk about design. We discuss ways to help improve the collaboration between designers and frontend developers. Julie shares her perspective on building great user experiences for low-bandwidth internet speeds and how taking a progressive enhancement approach can be beneficial to the user.","published":"February 7, 2017"},{"episode":"027","title":"A drink for the \"Rust\" of us","description":"Rust is an exciting systems programming language that’s being developed in Mozilla. In this episode, we’re joined by Jafar Husain to talk about the Rust and what the benefits of leveraging a language like Rust. We also talk about why a JavaScript engineer would want to learn Rust and how it can help them in their JavaScript coding.","published":"February 15, 2017"},{"episode":"028","title":"JavaScript Universi-LongIslandIce-ty","description":"We’ve all started somewhere. JavaScript isn’t always an easy language to learn. In this episode, we’re joined by Gordon Zhu, who teaches workshops on JavaScript at Watch and Code. We are also joined by Luis Vargas, a Senior Manager on Global Payments at Netflix who has recently been learning JavaScript and has attended one of Gordon’s workshops. In this episode, we all talk about our journey of learning JavaScript and ways we’ve worked through it.","published":"February 26, 2017"},{"episode":"029","title":"Alcoholic Angular","description":"In this episode, we’re joined by our special guest, Ayşegül Yönet, a Software Engineer Autodesk, who will help us discuss the popular Google JavaScript framework Angular. In the episode, we discuss the benefits of leveraging Angular and what the major differences are from Angular 1 and Angular 2.","published":"March 12, 2017"},{"episode":"030","title":"Static site generators and dynamic drink drinkers","description":"Websites have gotten a lot more complicated over the years. What happened to static HTML? In this episode we’re joined by Harry Wolff, the creator of Reptar, to talk about leveraging build tools to create static generated sites. We talk about the pros and cons of leveraging a static site generator for a website. We also discuss some of the tools available to help you get started.","published":"March 24, 2017"},{"episode":"031","title":"A flaming shot of burnout","description":"Burnout is not a rare phenomenon that engineers deal with. In this episode, we talk about the ways we’ve been affected by burnout and how we’ve dealt with it. We discuss past experiences that have created burnout for us and ways we can prevent it from happening in the future.","published":"April 9, 2017"},{"episode":"032","title":"Imposter Syndrome - These are not the drinks you're looking for","description":"What’s it like to deal with Imposter Syndrome? In this episode, we are joined by Jessica Grist, a Software Engineer at Adroll to discuss how we’ve all experience Imposter Syndrome in our careers and share ways to help deal with it.","published":"April 23, 2017"},{"episode":"033","title":"One part beer, three parts web components. Add lemon to taste","description":"In this episode, we are joined by Trey Shugart who is a front-end developer (Principal Developer) at Atlassian, proponent of web components, and author of SkateJS to talk about Web Components.","published":"May 7, 2017"},{"episode":"034","title":"npm install beer --save-in-mouth","description":"In this episode, we are joined by Laurie Voss, the COO and former CTO at npm. Npm, also known as Node Package Manager has been an important tool in the JavaScript community and has helped engineers share their code. In today’s episode, we’ll be discussing how we leverage npm and find out what we can expect from npm 5. Laurie also teaches us some cool tricks that exist in the npm cli.","published":"May 22, 2017"},{"episode":"035","title":"Top shelf style guides","description":"In this episode, we’re joined by Jyri Tuulos and Josh London to help discuss reusable components and building style guides. Jyri is a Staff Engineer at AdRoll and Josh is a Senior Designer at Netflix. We discuss best practices companies are leveraging style guides and reusable components. We also share the positives and negatives to having a style guide.","published":"June 4, 2017"},{"episode":"036","title":"First drink at a new bar","description":"Starting a new job is never easy, but a good onboarding process can make all the difference. In this episode, we talk about our experiences with onboarding at companies we’ve worked at and share our thoughts on what makes a good experience when starting a new job.","published":"June 18, 2017"},{"episode":"037","title":"Amazing Manhattans Anywhere","description":"We’ve received a lot of great questions from our listeners and wanted to take the time to answer them as an AMA (Ask Me Anything) episode. Thank you all for the great questions, we had a lot of fun answering them.","published":"July 5, 2017"},{"episode":"038","title":"Plotting our drinks","description":"In this episode, we’re joined by Shirley Wu, a Freelance Software Engineer who focuses on Data Visualization. Shirley shares a lot of knowledge about Data Visualization using JavaScript.","published":"July 17, 2017"},{"episode":"039","title":"Smashed after a Swift shot","description":"In this episode, we’re joined by Stefan Stumpfl, a mobile software engineer at LinkedIn working on LinkedIn Learning. During the past 5 years as an iOS developer, he has experience ranging from building his own app on a small 2-person team to larger teams like his current role at LinkedIn. In this episode, we will discuss the Swift programming language – how it compares to languages like Javascript and some of the advantages and disadvantages to writing and learning it.","published":"July 30, 2017"},{"episode":"040","title":"React Native - Mix Once, Drink Everywhere","description":"In this episode, we’re joined by Naoufal Kadhom, a Software Engineer from Netflix who’s also just released a payment library for React Native. In the episode, we’ll be discussing React Native and what it’s like to leverage it for Android and iOS applications.","published":"August 14, 2017"},{"episode":"041","title":"Maintaining a healthy buzz","description":"Maintaining and scaling code is an important aspect of our careers. In this episode, we discuss and share ideas to help keep a healthy code base that will scale with your company.","published":"August 27, 2017"},{"episode":"042","title":"Work hard, drink hard","description":"There’s always a lot to be done, but having a good work life balance is extremely important. In this episode, we are joined by Sarah Showers from LinkedIn, to talk with us about work life balance. We share our thoughts on what work life balance means to us and how our companies help foster a healthy work life balance.","published":"September 13, 2017"},{"episode":"043","title":"Our first drink","description":"We all had to start somewhere. In this episode, we are joined by Preethi Kasireddy to talk with us about her and our experiences of being a beginner to coding.","published":"October 1, 2017"},{"episode":"044","title":"Champagne ideas and caviar dreams","description":"Writing great code isn’t always the only part of our jobs. In order to impact changes on our teams or the business, we need to be able to persuade others to buy into your ideas. This could be in the form of migrating to a new technology, process or even adding a new feature to a product. In this episode, we are joined by Shirley Wu to help us discuss how we can best sell our ideas and make an impact on our teams or clients.","published":"October 15, 2017"},{"episode":"045","title":"Getting the bartender's attention","description":"In a previous episode, we discussed working with a recruiter during a job interview process. In this episode, we’re joined by Netflix recruiter, Bianca Bortolussi to discuss ways to help your engineering profile stand out to recruiters and hiring managers.","published":"October 29, 2017"},{"episode":"046","title":"Locking down the liquor","description":"In this episode of the Front End Happy Hour podcast, we discuss how as front end engineers we can impact security vulnerabilities in the applications and websites we are creating.","published":"November 14, 2017"},{"episode":"047","title":"Speak(easy)","description":"Often times in our careers we’ve wanted to speak at conferences, meetups or even within our companies. It’s been a great way to share ideas and things we’ve learned. Giving a tech talk isn’t always the easiest thing. In this episode, we’ll be discussing what we’ve learned from our experiences and share advice on ways to help improve your next talk.","published":"November 26, 2017"},{"episode":"048","title":"Toast to a new year","description":"It’s been a great year! With 2017 coming to an end, we’ve decided to talk the highlights, trends, and disappointments of the year. We also talk about what we’re excited about in 2018.","published":"December 18, 2017"},{"episode":"049","title":"Independent taste testing","description":"We are back in 2018, for the first episode of the New Year we have two special guests, Shirley Wu and Amy Wibowo to talk with us about freelancing and running your own business. We discuss how to start freelance work, how to manage clients and how to handle difficult clients.","published":"January 21, 2018"},{"episode":"050","title":"Angling for a drink","description":"For our 50th episode, we are on stage live at the 2018 ngATL conference. We are joined by four of the talented speakers, Aimee Knight, Simona Cotin, John Papa, and April Wensel to talk about the state of Angular.","published":"February 5, 2018"},{"episode":"051","title":"Gin and toxic culture","description":"In this episode, we’ll be discussing things we’ve noticed in companies that have unhealthy culture, shady business practices, moving business targets and more. We talk about ways to avoid an unhealthy culture and how to help improve one.","published":"February 18, 2018"},{"episode":"052","title":"Looking Forward to a drink","description":"In this episode, we recorded live on stage at Forward JS conference in San Francisco. We were joined by our special guest, Allen Wirfs-Brock to talk about how the web has changed over the years and how JavaScript has been a large influence.","published":"March 4, 2018"},{"episode":"053","title":"Bar-tending to your codebase","description":"In this episode, we recorded live at SacJS event in Sacramento, California. On stage, we discuss the challenges of migrating a codebase and when to make the decision its the right time to refactor. We share lessons we’ve learned from past experiences.","published":"March 18, 2018"},{"episode":"054","title":"Wasted on Elm","description":"In this episode, we are joined by Richard Feldman to talk about the functional language Elm, which compiles to JavaScript. In the episode, we learn about the benefits to leveraging Elm and how to get started.","published":"April 1, 2018"},{"episode":"055","title":"A mixologist's tools","description":"In this episode, we discuss how we stay productive in our jobs. To help us with the discussion, we’re joined by Ellen Chisa, CEO, and Cofounder of Dark. We talk about tools and strategies we’ve found useful to help stay productive.","published":"April 16, 2018"},{"episode":"056","title":"Drink-a-thon onstage at Reactathon","description":"In this episode, we were live on stage at Reactathon conference in San Francisco discussing how to scale a React application. We share our thoughts on to best approaches to creating a good structure for your codebase at scale. We also share our experiences we’ve learned over the years how to scale our React applications.","published":"April 29, 2018"},{"episode":"057","title":"Falcor - Modeling our drinks","description":"In this episode, we’re joined by the Netflix Software Engineer, Anup Bishnoi to talk with us about the Netflix, open source, virtual JSON graph library, Falcor.","published":"April 13, 2018"},{"episode":"058","title":"User testing - Even a drunk person can do it","description":"A lot of the work we do impacts the people using the product or application we’ve made and it’s important to understand how our users resonate with the products we create. A great way to better understand what works for a user is by doing user testing. In this episode, we’ll be discussing user testing.","published":"May 28, 2018"},{"episode":"059","title":"A/B testing - Ale or Bourbon?","description":"In our previous episode, we talked about user testing and to better understand how a product or application resonates with users. In this episode, we’re joined by Lisa Burgess to help talk with us about another great way to get user feedback, A/B testing.","published":"June 10, 2018"},{"episode":"060","title":"Shots to growlers - finding the right size drink","description":"In this episode, we are joined by Shirley Wu and Brian Holt to talk with us about the various experiences we’ve had with startups, large companies, agencies, and freelance work.","published":"June 24, 2018"},{"episode":"061","title":"Build tooling - brewing complex bundles","description":"The front end ecosystem of build tooling continues to grow and become more powerful over the years. In this episode, we’re joined by Jamie Kyle and Maia Teegarden to talk with us about the power of build tools.","published":"July 8, 2018"},{"episode":"062","title":"Web Components - Shots of shadow dom","description":"In this episode, we talk with Ravi Srinivas and Erick Purino from Netflix to share how they are leveraging Web Components to create dynamic advertisements across the web.","published":"July 22, 2018"},{"episode":"063","title":"IoT - Internet of Tequila","description":"In this episode, we share our thoughts on IoT and smart devices in the home. We also talk about how JavaScript can be used to create your own smart devices. To talk with us about the smart devices, we’re joined by our guest, Sarah Showers from LinkedIn.","published":"August 5, 2018"},{"episode":"064","title":"Librations - JavaScript libraries","description":"In this episode, we’ll be discussing JavaScript libraries. We talk about when to use a library and when it might not be that practical.","published":"August 19, 2018"},{"episode":"065","title":"Recruiting - do you have time for a quick beer?","description":"We’ve had a lot of great recruiting discussions on previous episodes. In this episode, we’re joined by 3 recruiters, Matt Stephenson, Zack Skelly, and Chris Ahsing from 3 different startups to talk with us about how to stand out as an engineer, and what questions to ask recruiters about opportunities.","published":"September 2, 2018"},{"episode":"066","title":"Type systems - a static drink list","description":"Static type systems in JavaScript provide a lot of value and have been growing in popularity. In this episode, we’re joined by Lauren Tan and Kunal Bohra to talk with us about the benefits of leveraging a type system in your codebase.","published":"September 16, 2018"},{"episode":"067","title":"Ethics - to drink or not to drink?","description":"In this episode, we recorded a special live discussion on ethics in software development. The panel discussion was part of Certified Fresh Events with host Brian Rinaldi.","published":"September 30, 2018"},{"episode":"068","title":"Progressive Web Apps - Pale Wheat Ale","description":"Progressive Web Apps have been hailed as the next big leap forward in building web applications. In this episode we’re joined by Aaron Gustafson from Microsoft to talk all about PWA’s and the future of the web.","published":"October 14, 2018"},{"episode":"069","title":"Internships - Intern-sips","description":"Starting your career is a daunting task. You’ve learned these brand new skills, but how do you apply them and get experience? In this episode, we are joined by Moira Huang, to help us talk about internships and how best leverage an internship into a full time job.","published":"October 28, 2018"},{"episode":"070","title":"Senior Engineer - Master Brewer","description":"We are often asked, what makes you a Senior Software Engineer. It’s not an easy answer, there are a lot of interesting thoughts and responses. In this episode, we are joined by Lauren Tan to help discuss our thoughts on what makes someone be a Senior Software Engineer over a Software Engineer.","published":"November 25, 2018"},{"episode":"071","title":"Web Performance - Chugging our drinks down fast","description":"Creating performant websites and applications continue to be more and more important. In this episode, we are joined by Addy Osmani to talk with us about web performance and some future web platform APIs that help improve performance.","published":"December 9, 2018"},{"episode":"072","title":"Pacing our drinks - Engineering Performance","description":"Creating performant websites and applications continues to be really important, but what about engineering performance? How do we make sure we are improving our productivity as engineers? In this episode, we are joined Jacques Favreau and Michael Paulson from Netflix to hear more about their thoughts on being more productive.","published":"January 6, 2019"},{"episode":"073","title":"Drinks to go - Native mobile solutions","description":"There are a lot of great solutions available to support a native mobile experience for your application, but what’s the best option? In this episode we are joined by Jordanna Kwok from Netflix, to talk with us about some of the solutions and how to think through the best solution.","published":"January 20, 2019"},{"episode":"074","title":"Beer money - negotiating salaries","description":"We’ve talked about interviewing for engineering jobs, but once you have an offer, how do you negotiate the salary? In this episode, we’re joined by Matthew Gerstman, an engineer from Dropbox to talk with us about salaries, and stock.","published":"February 3, 2019"},{"episode":"075","title":"Component libraries - sharing our drinks","description":"In this episode, we are joined by Jeeyun Linn, and Cole Turner to talk with us about building and using component libraries in a company.","published":"February 18, 2019"},{"episode":"076","title":"Bandersnatching our drinks","description":"Bandersnatch is an exciting Netflix interactive film that’s not only an amazing story, it has seamless experience that Netflix engineering teams have created. In this episode, we are joined by engineering managers, Maria Kazandjieva, Maxine Cheung, and Courtney Kennedy to talk about the work their teams have done to make Bandersnatch possible.","published":"March 3, 2019"},{"episode":"077","title":"Career growth - beers and careers","description":"In past episodes, we’ve shared our thoughts on helping others grow or how to help interns in your company, but we haven’t discussed our thoughts on our own career growth. In this episode, we’ll share our thoughts and opinions on career growth.","published":"March 31, 2019"},{"episode":"078","title":"Our drinking is overrated","description":"In this episode, Jem and Ryan each toss out frontend terms, languages, technologies, and patterns to debate if they are underrated or overrated.","published":"April 14, 2019"},{"episode":"079","title":"Home-brewing front end culture","description":"In this episode, we are joined by Katie Sylor-Miller, a Staff Software Engineer from Etsy, to talk with us about ways to help build and foster a frontend culture within your companies.","published":"April 28, 2019"},{"episode":"080","title":"User experience - what if users are drunk?","description":"In this episode, we are joined by Randall Koutnik, a Senior Software Engineer at Slack to talk with us about how we should be thinking about ways to build better user experiences.","published":"May 14, 2019"},{"episode":"081","title":"CSS - continually sipping sazeracs","description":"In this episode, we are joined by Tyler Childs, a Senior Software Engineer at Netflix to talk with us about building out scalable CSS and share some of the exciting new features in the latest version of CSS.","published":"May 26, 2019"},{"episode":"082","title":"Product management - Pouring Martinis","description":"In this episode, we’re joined by product managers, Michael Spiegelman, Cathy Conk, and Eddy Wu from Netflix to talk with us about the relationship between engineers and product managers.","published":"June 9, 2019"},{"episode":"083","title":"Behind the bar - Collaborating with the Backend","description":"In this episode, we are joined by Ujjwal Tyagi and Eric Eiswerth to talk with us about how Backend and Frontend engineers can be most effective collaborating.","published":"June 23, 2019"},{"episode":"084","title":"Niagara Falls, on the rocks - development process","description":"There are quite a few ways to organize a team to build out a new feature. Two of the most talked-about are Waterfall and Agile. In this episode, we’ll be talking through the pros and cons of some of the development processes we’ve encountered.","published":"July 21, 2019"},{"episode":"085","title":"The art of mixology - creative coding","description":"In this episode, we are joined by a returning guest, Shirley Wu to talk with us about the combination of code and art.","published":"August 4, 2019"},{"episode":"086","title":"A new brand of bourbon - code migrations","description":"We’ve all faced some form of code migration in the past and wanted to share some of the things we’ve learned. In this episode, we’re joined by Micah Ransdell, a Software Engineering Manager at Netflix to talk with us about migrating a codebase.","published":"August 18, 2019"},{"episode":"087","title":"Open bar - all things open source","description":"As engineers we have a lot of excellent tools and resources to help us do our jobs well, one of those resources is open source code. In this episode, we will be talking about all things open source.","published":"September 15, 2019"},{"episode":"088","title":"Tech lead engineer - herding cats & drinks","description":"We often talk a lot about growth paths as engineers. One of those growth paths could be a tech lead engineer. In this episode, we are joined by Tony Edwards to help talk with us about what the role and responsibilities of a lead engineer are.","published":"September 29, 2019"},{"episode":"089","title":"Hollywood Martinis - Netflix Studio Engineering","description":"In this episode, we are going to be talking with Priyankaa Vijayakumar and Lauren Tan about an interesting engineering effort their teams at Netflix are working on. Netflix continues to create its own content and Hollywood is an interesting world with a ton of opportunities for engineering to integrate technology to make things more efficient. Priyankaa and Lauren will be telling us more about those engineering challenges.","published":"October 27, 2019"},{"episode":"090","title":"Sipping our drinks, enjoying the Vue - Vue JS","description":"In this episode, we are joined by Sarah Drasner and Gift Egwuenu to talk with us about the popular JavaScript framework, VueJS.","published":"November 24, 2019"},{"episode":"091","title":"Balancing your drinks & belonging - Inclusion & Diversity in Tech","description":"It is really important to make sure our community is an inclusive environment for everyone to feel like they belong. In this episode, we are joined by Cher and Henry Zhu to talk with us about inclusion and diversity.","published":"December 8, 2019"},{"episode":"092","title":"Keeping the taps on - Holiday code freeze","description":"Happy Holidays! In this episode, we talk about supporting large applications over the holidays and what the best practices are in order to make sure your customers have 100% availability over the holidays.","published":"December 22, 2019"},{"episode":"093","title":"Beers and Careers - Career Management","description":"It can be really important to think about what you want in your career. In this episode, we are joined by Michael Gaskill to talk with us about career management.","published":"January 5, 2020"},{"episode":"094","title":"Will code for wine - Civic hacking","description":"It’s always great to be able to put our skills to good use. In this episode, we are joined by Sarah Yu to talk with us about civic hacking.","published":"January 20, 2020"},{"episode":"095","title":"Shot for Shot - One on Ones","description":"As engineers, we spend a lot of our time coding, but we also spend a lot of time in meetings. A typical meeting we are in is one on one meetings. In this episode, we talk about ways to get the most out of one on one meetings and avoid having bad ones.","published":"February 16, 2020"},{"episode":"096","title":"Our preferred beverages - Work preferences","description":"There’s a constant debate on what the preferred work environment is, in office, remote, or work from home. In this episode, we talk about our preferences and some of the pros and cons of each work option.","published":"March 1, 2020"},{"episode":"097","title":"Cocktail recipes - Design systems","description":"In this episode, we recorded live on stage at Root Insurance in Columbus, Ohio. We were joined by Jibran Kutik and Oliver Farshi to talk with about design systems and how engineers and designers collaborate.","published":"March 15, 2020"},{"episode":"098","title":"Drinking alone? Together? - Working from home","description":"With the COVID-19 situation, we are all confined to our homes. In this episode, we thought it’d be an excellent opportunity to talk through our experiences working from home during this time.","published":"March 20, 2020"},{"episode":"099","title":"No REST with Quintessential Libations - GraphQL","description":"In this episode, we are joined by Shruti Kapoor to talk with us about GraphQL and why your company could benefit from leveraging GraphQL on the front end and the back end.","published":"March 29, 2020"},{"episode":"100","title":"100 beers on the wall","description":"This is our 100th episode, it’s an exciting milestone for the podcast. In this episode, we talk about the history of the podcast and talk about some of our favorite moments and episodes.","published":"April 12, 2020"},{"episode":"101","title":"Showing off our personal bars - Personal projects","description":"We all focus a lot of our time on engineering work for large companies, but we’ve each had our side projects we’ve worked on in our careers. In this episode, we share our side projects we’ve done in the past.","published":"April 26, 2020"},{"episode":"102","title":"Complex flavors - complex systems","description":"We’ve all been there, a project starts off simple, but quickly becomes more complex. In this episode, we are joined by Sarah Drasner to talk with us about how to deal with complex codebases and systems.","published":"May 10, 2020"},{"episode":"103","title":"Brews in Bars - Ecosystem Engineering","description":"In this episode, we learn more about Ecosystem Engineering from Netflix engineers, Michael James, and Shravan Heroor.","published":"May 24, 2020"},{"episode":"104","title":"#BlackLivesMatter","description":"Instead of listening to an episode of Front End Happy Hour this week, we want to encourage you to use the hour to check out educational materials about the long history of structural racism and injustice Black people continue to face as well as learn how you can be actively anti-racist to affect real change. In our show notes, we’ve provided a list of picks that includes podcasts, videos, books, and articles available for you to learn more. The list of resources will be in the show notes. Simply put, Black lives matter.","published":"June 5, 2020"},{"episode":"105","title":"A parcel of drinks - Parcel","description":"In previous episodes, we’ve talked a lot about bundling JavaScript, but we haven’t talked a lot about Parcel. In this episode, we are joined by Maia Teegarden, Will Binns-Smith, and Devon Govett to talk with us about Parcel JS.","published":"June 14, 2020"},{"episode":"106","title":"Carefully Sipping Sangria - CSS","description":"Writing CSS is quick to learn, but writing strong CSS patterns that can scale is a lot more challenging. In this episode, we are joined by Brad Frost to discuss useful patterns in CSS and the future of CSS.","published":"June 28, 2020"},{"episode":"107","title":"Public speakeasy - Public speaking","description":"Whether you’re giving a presentation to a large audience at a conference, your team, or articulating an idea, public speaking is an important skill set. In this episode, we are joined by Anne Ricketts to talk with us to share ways to be a strong presenter.","published":"July 12, 2020"},{"episode":"108","title":"Whiteboarding for our drinks - The coding interview","description":"We’ve all been there, coding interviews always have their challenges. In this episode, we are joined by Emma Bostian to talk with us about the technical coding interview. We share our experiences and thoughts on what we like and dislike about the various coding interviews.","published":"July 26, 2020"},{"episode":"109","title":"Quick pour - Web Performance","description":"Web performance continues to be an input factor to prioritize when building web applications. In this episode, we speak with Google engineers, Kristofer Baxtor, and Jason Miller about the latest best practices in web performance.","published":"August 09, 2020"},{"episode":"110","title":"Bartending to everyone - Inclusive language","description":"Alongside the Black Lives Matter movement, we’ve started to see a lot of positive discussions on how the tech community can be more inclusive with its language. In this episode, we will be discussing our thoughts on making tech language more inclusive.","published":"August 23, 2020"},{"episode":"111","title":"Patron, Palomas, and programmatic problem solving","description":"When we are writing code as engineers, no matter what programming language, we are doing some form of planning and problem solving. In this episode, we are talking about programmatic problem solving with Nicole Archambault.","published":"September 6, 2020"},{"episode":"112","title":"SEO - Searching for our drinks","description":"Build it and they will come, right? Wrong. Search Engine Optimization is a key component of how people will discover your website or application. In this episode, we are joined by Netflix engineer, Cole Turner to talk with us about the importance of SEO and ways to improve your ranking in search engines.","published":"September 20, 2020"},{"episode":"113","title":"Severless - serving(less) drinks","description":"Do you remember the days of FTP? In this episode, we are joined by Jerome Hardaway to talk with us about the changes made to hosting websites and how serverless has improved the ways we serve up websites and applications.","published":"October 4, 2020"},{"episode":"114","title":"Remote interviewing - drinking on video calls","description":"When you can’t interview in person, we are forced to interview over video calls. In this episode, we are joined by Bianca Bortolussi, and Jen Pi to talk with us about what it’s like to interview for a new role during these covid times.","published":"October 18, 2020"},{"episode":"115","title":"Imposter Syndrome - Wine connoisseur with a $15 bottle","description":"What’s it like to deal with Imposter Syndrome? In this episode, we are joined by Shirley Wu, to talk through each of our experiences dealing with imposter syndrome and have we’ve overcome it.","published":"November 4, 2020"},{"episode":"116","title":"Live at QCon Plus 2020","description":"In this episode, we were joined by our guests, Ben Ilegbodu and Jason Lengstorf to discuss frontend patterns live at this year's QCon Plus conference. On the panel, we shared our thoughts on various frontend trends and patterns being used. We also took questions from the live QCon Plus audience.","published":"November 15, 2020"},{"episode":"117","title":"Quitting a job - leaving the bar","description":"We’ve all decided at one point or another that it’s time to look for a new job. In this episode, we talk through reasons that lead to us looking for new opportunities in our past jobs.","published":"November 29, 2020"},{"episode":"118","title":"Good manager, bad manager - tasty drink, bland drink","description":"In our last episode, we talked about leaving a job, and one of those reasons for leaving was due to a bad manager. In this episode, we follow up our discussion on what makes a good manager.","published":"December 20, 2020"},{"episode":"119","title":"2020 reflections - Fireball shots","description":"In this episode, we will be reflecting on the past year and how things have drastically changed for how we work and how our companies have had to adapt during a pandemic.","published":"December 31, 2020"},{"episode":"120","title":"Building side projects - Served with a tasty Sidecar","description":"In this episode, we are joined by Evan Payne to talk with us about how we each approach side projects. Evan also shares a side project he’s built in Angular.","published":"Jan 17, 2020"},{"episode":"121","title":"Transitioning to a new role - Bar hopping","description":"At some point or another, we’ve all had to move to a new role or a new company. In this episode, we are joined by special guests Tara Ellis and Jared Jordan to help us discuss things we’ve learned to help transition to a new role or job.","published":"January 31, 2021"},{"episode":"122","title":"Productivity Engineering - Ballmer Peak","description":"How do developer teams stay productive? In this episode, we are talking with Kathryn Koehler and Andy Glover from the Netflix Productivity Engineering team to learn more about what a Productivity Engineering team does to help improve productivity.","published":"February 14, 2021"},{"episode":"123","title":"Documentation - the bartenders' almanac","description":"How important is documentation? In this episode, we share our thoughts and opinions on how we approach documentation and the tools that have helped us. ","published":"February 28, 2021"},{"episode":"124","title":"Software estimating - two finger pour","description":"When it comes to estimating the time it takes to build any software project, it’s never easy. There’s a lot of factors that go into estimating. In this episode, we talk about our experiences with estimating and ways we’ve improved it over the years.","published":"March 14, 2021"},{"episode":"125","title":"Non-traditional backgrounds - Old Fashioneds with a twist","description":"Not everyone starts their engineering career with a Computer Science degree, there are a lot of ways to start an engineering career. In this episode, we are joined by David Simmer from Netflix to talk with us about non-traditional backgrounds.","published":"March 28, 2021"},{"episode":"126","title":"Core Web Vitals - Vital libations","description":"Optimizing websites for a quality user experience is key to the long-term success of any site on the web and Core Web Vitals is an initiative Google has provided as a unified guidance for quality signals that are essential to delivering a great user experience on the web. Addy Osmani and Kristofer Baxter, from Google, join us to talk more about Core Web Vitals.","published":"April 11, 2021"},{"episode":"127","title":"Writing a technical book - drafts on tap","description":"Our very own Shirley Wu and her friend, Nadieh Bremer recently wrote a book called, Data Sketches so we wanted to learn more about what it’s like to write a technical book. In this episode, we are joined by Nadieh to talk with us about the process of writing and having a book published. ","published":"April 25, 2021"},{"episode":"128","title":"Branding & self-promotion - mimosa and self-promosa","description":"As you build your career, it’s helpful to think about your personal brand and how you promote yourself in the industry. In this episode, we are joined by Alice Lee, to talk with us about how each of us approach branding and self-promotion.","published":"May 9, 2021"},{"episode":"129","title":"Allyship - Inviting everyone to the party","description":"A big way to help make a more inclusive tech industry, we need strong allies. In this episode, we are joined by Better Allies, Karen Catlin, to talk with us about allyship.","published":"May 23, 2021"},{"episode":"130","title":"Stack and infrastructure shaping culture - Drink choice to set the vibe","description":"In previous episodes we've talked about how to choose a technical stack and figure out what works best for you and your team. In this episode, we are joined by Jason Lengstorf to talk about how the choice of stack and infrastructure reflects the company culture.","published":"June 6, 2021"},{"episode":"131","title":"Diversity and inclusion - Tech(K)now Day","description":"This was a live panel discussion at the Tech(K)now Day conference that took place on March 8, 2021. We did a live episode with the conference organizer, Gen Ashley, who joined us to talk about diversity and inclusion in tech.","published":"July 4, 2021"},{"episode":"132","title":"Test Engineering - Beverage quality assurance","description":"Releasing a successful product in production requires testing. In this episode, we are joined by Preethi Sitaraman to talk with us about test engineering and how developers and test engineers can collaborate.","published":"July 18, 2021"},{"episode":"133","title":"It’s 5 o’clock somewhere - Joining a remote team","description":"With a lot of companies now hiring more remote employees, we wanted to talk about what it’s like to join a new team being fully remote. In this episode, we are joined by Laurie Barth and Lucero Carmona to share their thoughts on what the experience joining a remote team has been like.","published":"August 8, 2021"},{"episode":"134","title":"Individual contributor to manager - Transitioning into a bartender","description":"In this episode, we talk about what it’s like to go from an individual contributor engineer, to an engineering manager. With Jem recently moving into a manager role, Nazanin Delam and Dan DiGangi joined us to share more about their experiences moving into management.","published":"August 22, 2021"},{"episode":"135","title":"Dealing with burnout - Burnt Orange Campari","description":"Who’s ever had to deal with burnout? In this episode, we are joined by two guests, Vaidehi Joshi, and Eli to share their experiences dealing with burnout. We all share how burnout has shown up for us throughout our careers and how we’ve found ways to deal with it or prevent it.","published":"September 5, 2021"},{"episode":"136","title":"Old Fashioned, old roles, new beginnings","description":"It’s always hard to know when is the right time to make a career change. There’s likely never a perfect time, but in this episode, we talk about how we have made decisions and what’s worked and what hasn’t.","published":"September 19, 2021"},{"episode":"137","title":"One drink and a monolithic architecture","description":"We've often talked about micro-services and monolithic architectures on previous episodes. In this episode, we are joined by Katherine Peterson to talk with us about her experience working with a monolithic codebase.","published":"October 3, 2021"},{"episode":"138","title":"Bar debate - Smart homes","description":"If you've listened to past episodes, you've likely heard Ryan and Jem disagree about smart home devices or IoT. In this episode, the two of them have a friendly debate around their thinking of smart homes and what the pros and cons are.","published":"October 17, 2021"},{"episode":"139","title":"Preparing ingredients - Interview prep","description":"There’s no way around, at some point, you will likely be interviewing. 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In this episode, we are joined by Sumana Mohan and Joe King from Netflix to talk about their recent migration to TypeScript on the Netflix website signup flow.","published":"February 6, 2022"},{"episode":"144","title":"Sidebar interview with Ryan Burgess","description":"Our sidebar interview specials interview our panelists individually to learn more about their backgrounds and careers. In this episode, we interview Ryan Burgess, the creator of the Front End Happy Hour podcast.","published":"February 20, 2022"},{"episode":"145","title":"Server Driven UI - Served from behind the bar","description":"What is server-driven UI and what are the advantages to taking this approach? 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The panel shares their thoughts on front end tools and how they view the current state of web development.","published":"February 29, 2016"},{"episode":"002","title":"RxJS - Async and Drink","description":"In the second episode of the Front End Happy Hour podcast, our special guest, Ben Lesh joins us to talk about all the great things in RxJS 5.","published":"March 16, 2016"},{"episode":"003","title":"From head to footer","description":"In this ever changing industry of front end development, developers are constantly learning. In this episode of Front End Happy Hour we discuss everything from our school backgrounds and what lead us to front end development. We also share ways we stay up to date with the ever-changing landscape of new technologies. Along with our usual panelists, we are joined by guest Sarah Showers, a front end developer from Apple.","published":"March 24, 2016"},{"episode":"004","title":"ES6 and a Six Pack","description":"ECMAScript 6 was a major release for the JavaScript language. There’s a lot of great new features that have been added. In this episode we discuss how you can start using ES6 today and what we’ll start seeing in the next year for the latest update to ECMAScript. We share our favorite features and the best ways to learn and stay up to date with new features.","published":"April 04, 2016"},{"episode":"005","title":"Interviews make us drink","description":"In order to work professionally as a front end developer, there is always an intense interview process. In this episode, we share our experiences and thoughts on the interviews we’ve done in the past. Not only have we had experience being interviewed, we’ve also had a lot of experience interviewing other engineers for jobs at our companies. We share things we’re looking for when we interview candidates to join our teams.","published":"April 14, 2016"},{"episode":"006","title":"Unit testing and whiskey tasting","description":"We’ve all heard unit testing is good, but how do you get started writing unit tests? In this episode of Front End Happy Hour we share our experiences and advice writing unit tests. We discuss why it’s important and beneficial to have unit tests in your JavaScript. We share how we’ve approached unit tests and what a good unit test looks like. We also talk about the various tools and frameworks available to get your code properly tested.","published":"April 25, 2015"},{"episode":"007","title":"a11y Cocktail","description":"In this episode, we have a special guest joining us to talk about digital accessibility, Jennison Asuncion who is a leader in the accessibility community and has a lot of information to help us improve our websites and applications be more accessible for all users. We also talk about Global Accessibility Awareness Day (GAAD) coming up on May 19th. Find out how you can participate.","published":"May 15, 2016"},{"episode":"008","title":"A Shot of Silicon Valley","description":"Working in Silicon Valley is very unique. We work in a bubble, immersed in technology. There are billboards about frameworks, technology, and gadgets. Coffee shops are filled with people on Macbooks covered in stickers. Conversations on the train, coffee shops and on the streets are about programming languages. There’s a unique culture from other places we’ve all lived. In this episode, we share our thoughts and experiences living and working in Silicon Valley.","published":"May 24, 2016"},{"episode":"009","title":"Scotch makes us animated","description":"In this episode we learn about animating with JavaScript. We’re joined by a special guest, Sarah Drasner, who is an expert in JavaScript and SVG animations. Having good animations in your product is really important for the overall user experience. In the episode we discuss various libraries to help create animations in your websites or applications. Sarah shares a lot of valuable information.","published":"June 6, 2016"},{"episode":"010","title":"Raise your glass to women in tech","description":"In the technology industry we’re continually trying to grow the diversity of people who are working in the space. Most recently there have been a lot of great efforts made to increase the number of women in tech. In this episode we are joined by two talented women working at large tech companies in the Bay Area, Lisa Burgess (Uber) and Mars Jullian (Netflix). We discuss what it’s like to be a women working in tech and talk about ways we can help foster a more inclusive industry.","published":"July 12, 2016"},{"episode":"011","title":"Transpilers - slow down and drink","description":"Leveraging transpilers is extremely helpful in allowing us to extend the JavaScript language in ways JavaScript engines cannot. There are a lot of amazing transpilers available in the JavaScript community and we all love transpilers, but there are things developers should be aware of when we’re using transpilers.","published":"July 27, 2016"},{"episode":"012","title":"Ninja Rockstar Whiskey Drinker With 10 Years IPA Experience","description":"As an engineer or developer we currently fortunate enough to have a wide selection of amazing jobs and companies to work for. Although we have a wide selection of jobs, finding the right one is extremely important and may require some additional work. In this episode, we are joined by the guests Chrissy Running and Alayna Ketner who are both talented recruiters at Netflix. Chrissy and Alayna have a lot of experience working with engineers to help find the ideal role. We’ll discuss types of things companies are looking for and how you can best leverage competitive offers in your job searches.","published":"August 8, 2016"},{"episode":"013","title":"Drinking in the present to learn future JavaScript","description":"In episode 13 of the Front End Happy Hour podcast, we’re joined by Jafar Husain from Netflix to talk with us about the future of JavaScript. Jafar is part of the TC-39 committee that helps determine the future specs of ECMAScript. Jafar shares a lot of interesting insights into how the committee works and how a feature makes it's way into the spec. 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In this episode we’ll be discussing the ways we have dealt with supporting multiple languages.","published":"December 5, 2016"},{"episode":"022","title":"Drinking with more style and less sass","description":"Writing CSS seems pretty straight forward until your project and team starts to grow. CSS has a lot of issues, in this episode we share some advice for making it a little bit easier. We’ll also discuss ways to create a scalable CSS architecture for large projects and teams.","published":"December 16, 2016"},{"episode":"023","title":"Ember - Gin & Tomster","description":"Ember is a growing JavaScript framework that large companies like LinkedIn are using for their web application. In this episode, we are joined by Stacy London from Atlassian to discuss the advantages and disadvantages of leveraging Ember as a JavaScript framework.","published":"December 30, 2016"},{"episode":"024","title":"The hangover of 2016","description":"As we look forward to all the great trends and changes that will happen in 2017, in this episode we discuss our thoughts and opinions on the various development trends and notable things that happened in 2016. Looking forward on 2017, we share some of the things we’re excited to see in the new year.","published":"January 15, 2017"},{"episode":"025","title":"From bar-back to frontender","description":"We’ve all started out somewhere in our career. In previous episodes, we’ve talked about various ways we’ve learned front end development, but haven’t touched on mentorship. 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Npm, also known as Node Package Manager has been an important tool in the JavaScript community and has helped engineers share their code. In today’s episode, we’ll be discussing how we leverage npm and find out what we can expect from npm 5. Laurie also teaches us some cool tricks that exist in the npm cli.","published":"May 22, 2017"},{"episode":"035","title":"Top shelf style guides","description":"In this episode, we’re joined by Jyri Tuulos and Josh London to help discuss reusable components and building style guides. Jyri is a Staff Engineer at AdRoll and Josh is a Senior Designer at Netflix. We discuss best practices companies are leveraging style guides and reusable components. We also share the positives and negatives to having a style guide.","published":"June 4, 2017"},{"episode":"036","title":"First drink at a new bar","description":"Starting a new job is never easy, but a good onboarding process can make all the difference. 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During the past 5 years as an iOS developer, he has experience ranging from building his own app on a small 2-person team to larger teams like his current role at LinkedIn. In this episode, we will discuss the Swift programming language – how it compares to languages like Javascript and some of the advantages and disadvantages to writing and learning it.","published":"July 30, 2017"},{"episode":"040","title":"React Native - Mix Once, Drink Everywhere","description":"In this episode, we’re joined by Naoufal Kadhom, a Software Engineer from Netflix who’s also just released a payment library for React Native. In the episode, we’ll be discussing React Native and what it’s like to leverage it for Android and iOS applications.","published":"August 14, 2017"},{"episode":"041","title":"Maintaining a healthy buzz","description":"Maintaining and scaling code is an important aspect of our careers. In this episode, we discuss and share ideas to help keep a healthy code base that will scale with your company.","published":"August 27, 2017"},{"episode":"042","title":"Work hard, drink hard","description":"There’s always a lot to be done, but having a good work life balance is extremely important. In this episode, we are joined by Sarah Showers from LinkedIn, to talk with us about work life balance. We share our thoughts on what work life balance means to us and how our companies help foster a healthy work life balance.","published":"September 13, 2017"},{"episode":"043","title":"Our first drink","description":"We all had to start somewhere. In this episode, we are joined by Preethi Kasireddy to talk with us about her and our experiences of being a beginner to coding.","published":"October 1, 2017"},{"episode":"044","title":"Champagne ideas and caviar dreams","description":"Writing great code isn’t always the only part of our jobs. In order to impact changes on our teams or the business, we need to be able to persuade others to buy into your ideas. This could be in the form of migrating to a new technology, process or even adding a new feature to a product. In this episode, we are joined by Shirley Wu to help us discuss how we can best sell our ideas and make an impact on our teams or clients.","published":"October 15, 2017"},{"episode":"045","title":"Getting the bartender's attention","description":"In a previous episode, we discussed working with a recruiter during a job interview process. 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In this episode, we’ll be discussing what we’ve learned from our experiences and share advice on ways to help improve your next talk.","published":"November 26, 2017"},{"episode":"048","title":"Toast to a new year","description":"It’s been a great year! With 2017 coming to an end, we’ve decided to talk the highlights, trends, and disappointments of the year. We also talk about what we’re excited about in 2018.","published":"December 18, 2017"},{"episode":"049","title":"Independent taste testing","description":"We are back in 2018, for the first episode of the New Year we have two special guests, Shirley Wu and Amy Wibowo to talk with us about freelancing and running your own business. We discuss how to start freelance work, how to manage clients and how to handle difficult clients.","published":"January 21, 2018"},{"episode":"050","title":"Angling for a drink","description":"For our 50th episode, we are on stage live at the 2018 ngATL conference. 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On stage, we discuss the challenges of migrating a codebase and when to make the decision its the right time to refactor. We share lessons we’ve learned from past experiences.","published":"March 18, 2018"},{"episode":"054","title":"Wasted on Elm","description":"In this episode, we are joined by Richard Feldman to talk about the functional language Elm, which compiles to JavaScript. In the episode, we learn about the benefits to leveraging Elm and how to get started.","published":"April 1, 2018"},{"episode":"055","title":"A mixologist's tools","description":"In this episode, we discuss how we stay productive in our jobs. To help us with the discussion, we’re joined by Ellen Chisa, CEO, and Cofounder of Dark. We talk about tools and strategies we’ve found useful to help stay productive.","published":"April 16, 2018"},{"episode":"056","title":"Drink-a-thon onstage at Reactathon","description":"In this episode, we were live on stage at Reactathon conference in San Francisco discussing how to scale a React application. We share our thoughts on to best approaches to creating a good structure for your codebase at scale. We also share our experiences we’ve learned over the years how to scale our React applications.","published":"April 29, 2018"},{"episode":"057","title":"Falcor - Modeling our drinks","description":"In this episode, we’re joined by the Netflix Software Engineer, Anup Bishnoi to talk with us about the Netflix, open source, virtual JSON graph library, Falcor.","published":"April 13, 2018"},{"episode":"058","title":"User testing - Even a drunk person can do it","description":"A lot of the work we do impacts the people using the product or application we’ve made and it’s important to understand how our users resonate with the products we create. A great way to better understand what works for a user is by doing user testing. In this episode, we’ll be discussing user testing.","published":"May 28, 2018"},{"episode":"059","title":"A/B testing - Ale or Bourbon?","description":"In our previous episode, we talked about user testing and to better understand how a product or application resonates with users. In this episode, we’re joined by Lisa Burgess to help talk with us about another great way to get user feedback, A/B testing.","published":"June 10, 2018"},{"episode":"060","title":"Shots to growlers - finding the right size drink","description":"In this episode, we are joined by Shirley Wu and Brian Holt to talk with us about the various experiences we’ve had with startups, large companies, agencies, and freelance work.","published":"June 24, 2018"},{"episode":"061","title":"Build tooling - brewing complex bundles","description":"The front end ecosystem of build tooling continues to grow and become more powerful over the years. In this episode, we’re joined by Jamie Kyle and Maia Teegarden to talk with us about the power of build tools.","published":"July 8, 2018"},{"episode":"062","title":"Web Components - Shots of shadow dom","description":"In this episode, we talk with Ravi Srinivas and Erick Purino from Netflix to share how they are leveraging Web Components to create dynamic advertisements across the web.","published":"July 22, 2018"},{"episode":"063","title":"IoT - Internet of Tequila","description":"In this episode, we share our thoughts on IoT and smart devices in the home. We also talk about how JavaScript can be used to create your own smart devices. To talk with us about the smart devices, we’re joined by our guest, Sarah Showers from LinkedIn.","published":"August 5, 2018"},{"episode":"064","title":"Librations - JavaScript libraries","description":"In this episode, we’ll be discussing JavaScript libraries. We talk about when to use a library and when it might not be that practical.","published":"August 19, 2018"},{"episode":"065","title":"Recruiting - do you have time for a quick beer?","description":"We’ve had a lot of great recruiting discussions on previous episodes. In this episode, we’re joined by 3 recruiters, Matt Stephenson, Zack Skelly, and Chris Ahsing from 3 different startups to talk with us about how to stand out as an engineer, and what questions to ask recruiters about opportunities.","published":"September 2, 2018"},{"episode":"066","title":"Type systems - a static drink list","description":"Static type systems in JavaScript provide a lot of value and have been growing in popularity. In this episode, we’re joined by Lauren Tan and Kunal Bohra to talk with us about the benefits of leveraging a type system in your codebase.","published":"September 16, 2018"},{"episode":"067","title":"Ethics - to drink or not to drink?","description":"In this episode, we recorded a special live discussion on ethics in software development. The panel discussion was part of Certified Fresh Events with host Brian Rinaldi.","published":"September 30, 2018"},{"episode":"068","title":"Progressive Web Apps - Pale Wheat Ale","description":"Progressive Web Apps have been hailed as the next big leap forward in building web applications. In this episode we’re joined by Aaron Gustafson from Microsoft to talk all about PWA’s and the future of the web.","published":"October 14, 2018"},{"episode":"069","title":"Internships - Intern-sips","description":"Starting your career is a daunting task. You’ve learned these brand new skills, but how do you apply them and get experience? In this episode, we are joined by Moira Huang, to help us talk about internships and how best leverage an internship into a full time job.","published":"October 28, 2018"},{"episode":"070","title":"Senior Engineer - Master Brewer","description":"We are often asked, what makes you a Senior Software Engineer. It’s not an easy answer, there are a lot of interesting thoughts and responses. In this episode, we are joined by Lauren Tan to help discuss our thoughts on what makes someone be a Senior Software Engineer over a Software Engineer.","published":"November 25, 2018"},{"episode":"071","title":"Web Performance - Chugging our drinks down fast","description":"Creating performant websites and applications continue to be more and more important. In this episode, we are joined by Addy Osmani to talk with us about web performance and some future web platform APIs that help improve performance.","published":"December 9, 2018"},{"episode":"072","title":"Pacing our drinks - Engineering Performance","description":"Creating performant websites and applications continues to be really important, but what about engineering performance? How do we make sure we are improving our productivity as engineers? In this episode, we are joined Jacques Favreau and Michael Paulson from Netflix to hear more about their thoughts on being more productive.","published":"January 6, 2019"},{"episode":"073","title":"Drinks to go - Native mobile solutions","description":"There are a lot of great solutions available to support a native mobile experience for your application, but what’s the best option? In this episode we are joined by Jordanna Kwok from Netflix, to talk with us about some of the solutions and how to think through the best solution.","published":"January 20, 2019"},{"episode":"074","title":"Beer money - negotiating salaries","description":"We’ve talked about interviewing for engineering jobs, but once you have an offer, how do you negotiate the salary? In this episode, we’re joined by Matthew Gerstman, an engineer from Dropbox to talk with us about salaries, and stock.","published":"February 3, 2019"},{"episode":"075","title":"Component libraries - sharing our drinks","description":"In this episode, we are joined by Jeeyun Linn, and Cole Turner to talk with us about building and using component libraries in a company.","published":"February 18, 2019"},{"episode":"076","title":"Bandersnatching our drinks","description":"Bandersnatch is an exciting Netflix interactive film that’s not only an amazing story, it has seamless experience that Netflix engineering teams have created. In this episode, we are joined by engineering managers, Maria Kazandjieva, Maxine Cheung, and Courtney Kennedy to talk about the work their teams have done to make Bandersnatch possible.","published":"March 3, 2019"},{"episode":"077","title":"Career growth - beers and careers","description":"In past episodes, we’ve shared our thoughts on helping others grow or how to help interns in your company, but we haven’t discussed our thoughts on our own career growth. In this episode, we’ll share our thoughts and opinions on career growth.","published":"March 31, 2019"},{"episode":"078","title":"Our drinking is overrated","description":"In this episode, Jem and Ryan each toss out frontend terms, languages, technologies, and patterns to debate if they are underrated or overrated.","published":"April 14, 2019"},{"episode":"079","title":"Home-brewing front end culture","description":"In this episode, we are joined by Katie Sylor-Miller, a Staff Software Engineer from Etsy, to talk with us about ways to help build and foster a frontend culture within your companies.","published":"April 28, 2019"},{"episode":"080","title":"User experience - what if users are drunk?","description":"In this episode, we are joined by Randall Koutnik, a Senior Software Engineer at Slack to talk with us about how we should be thinking about ways to build better user experiences.","published":"May 14, 2019"},{"episode":"081","title":"CSS - continually sipping sazeracs","description":"In this episode, we are joined by Tyler Childs, a Senior Software Engineer at Netflix to talk with us about building out scalable CSS and share some of the exciting new features in the latest version of CSS.","published":"May 26, 2019"},{"episode":"082","title":"Product management - Pouring Martinis","description":"In this episode, we’re joined by product managers, Michael Spiegelman, Cathy Conk, and Eddy Wu from Netflix to talk with us about the relationship between engineers and product managers.","published":"June 9, 2019"},{"episode":"083","title":"Behind the bar - Collaborating with the Backend","description":"In this episode, we are joined by Ujjwal Tyagi and Eric Eiswerth to talk with us about how Backend and Frontend engineers can be most effective collaborating.","published":"June 23, 2019"},{"episode":"084","title":"Niagara Falls, on the rocks - development process","description":"There are quite a few ways to organize a team to build out a new feature. Two of the most talked-about are Waterfall and Agile. In this episode, we’ll be talking through the pros and cons of some of the development processes we’ve encountered.","published":"July 21, 2019"},{"episode":"085","title":"The art of mixology - creative coding","description":"In this episode, we are joined by a returning guest, Shirley Wu to talk with us about the combination of code and art.","published":"August 4, 2019"},{"episode":"086","title":"A new brand of bourbon - code migrations","description":"We’ve all faced some form of code migration in the past and wanted to share some of the things we’ve learned. In this episode, we’re joined by Micah Ransdell, a Software Engineering Manager at Netflix to talk with us about migrating a codebase.","published":"August 18, 2019"},{"episode":"087","title":"Open bar - all things open source","description":"As engineers we have a lot of excellent tools and resources to help us do our jobs well, one of those resources is open source code. In this episode, we will be talking about all things open source.","published":"September 15, 2019"},{"episode":"088","title":"Tech lead engineer - herding cats & drinks","description":"We often talk a lot about growth paths as engineers. One of those growth paths could be a tech lead engineer. In this episode, we are joined by Tony Edwards to help talk with us about what the role and responsibilities of a lead engineer are.","published":"September 29, 2019"},{"episode":"089","title":"Hollywood Martinis - Netflix Studio Engineering","description":"In this episode, we are going to be talking with Priyankaa Vijayakumar and Lauren Tan about an interesting engineering effort their teams at Netflix are working on. Netflix continues to create its own content and Hollywood is an interesting world with a ton of opportunities for engineering to integrate technology to make things more efficient. Priyankaa and Lauren will be telling us more about those engineering challenges.","published":"October 27, 2019"},{"episode":"090","title":"Sipping our drinks, enjoying the Vue - Vue JS","description":"In this episode, we are joined by Sarah Drasner and Gift Egwuenu to talk with us about the popular JavaScript framework, VueJS.","published":"November 24, 2019"},{"episode":"091","title":"Balancing your drinks & belonging - Inclusion & Diversity in Tech","description":"It is really important to make sure our community is an inclusive environment for everyone to feel like they belong. In this episode, we are joined by Cher and Henry Zhu to talk with us about inclusion and diversity.","published":"December 8, 2019"},{"episode":"092","title":"Keeping the taps on - Holiday code freeze","description":"Happy Holidays! In this episode, we talk about supporting large applications over the holidays and what the best practices are in order to make sure your customers have 100% availability over the holidays.","published":"December 22, 2019"},{"episode":"093","title":"Beers and Careers - Career Management","description":"It can be really important to think about what you want in your career. In this episode, we are joined by Michael Gaskill to talk with us about career management.","published":"January 5, 2020"},{"episode":"094","title":"Will code for wine - Civic hacking","description":"It’s always great to be able to put our skills to good use. In this episode, we are joined by Sarah Yu to talk with us about civic hacking.","published":"January 20, 2020"},{"episode":"095","title":"Shot for Shot - One on Ones","description":"As engineers, we spend a lot of our time coding, but we also spend a lot of time in meetings. A typical meeting we are in is one on one meetings. In this episode, we talk about ways to get the most out of one on one meetings and avoid having bad ones.","published":"February 16, 2020"},{"episode":"096","title":"Our preferred beverages - Work preferences","description":"There’s a constant debate on what the preferred work environment is, in office, remote, or work from home. In this episode, we talk about our preferences and some of the pros and cons of each work option.","published":"March 1, 2020"},{"episode":"097","title":"Cocktail recipes - Design systems","description":"In this episode, we recorded live on stage at Root Insurance in Columbus, Ohio. We were joined by Jibran Kutik and Oliver Farshi to talk with about design systems and how engineers and designers collaborate.","published":"March 15, 2020"},{"episode":"098","title":"Drinking alone? Together? - Working from home","description":"With the COVID-19 situation, we are all confined to our homes. In this episode, we thought it’d be an excellent opportunity to talk through our experiences working from home during this time.","published":"March 20, 2020"},{"episode":"099","title":"No REST with Quintessential Libations - GraphQL","description":"In this episode, we are joined by Shruti Kapoor to talk with us about GraphQL and why your company could benefit from leveraging GraphQL on the front end and the back end.","published":"March 29, 2020"},{"episode":"100","title":"100 beers on the wall","description":"This is our 100th episode, it’s an exciting milestone for the podcast. In this episode, we talk about the history of the podcast and talk about some of our favorite moments and episodes.","published":"April 12, 2020"},{"episode":"101","title":"Showing off our personal bars - Personal projects","description":"We all focus a lot of our time on engineering work for large companies, but we’ve each had our side projects we’ve worked on in our careers. In this episode, we share our side projects we’ve done in the past.","published":"April 26, 2020"},{"episode":"102","title":"Complex flavors - complex systems","description":"We’ve all been there, a project starts off simple, but quickly becomes more complex. In this episode, we are joined by Sarah Drasner to talk with us about how to deal with complex codebases and systems.","published":"May 10, 2020"},{"episode":"103","title":"Brews in Bars - Ecosystem Engineering","description":"In this episode, we learn more about Ecosystem Engineering from Netflix engineers, Michael James, and Shravan Heroor.","published":"May 24, 2020"},{"episode":"104","title":"#BlackLivesMatter","description":"Instead of listening to an episode of Front End Happy Hour this week, we want to encourage you to use the hour to check out educational materials about the long history of structural racism and injustice Black people continue to face as well as learn how you can be actively anti-racist to affect real change. In our show notes, we’ve provided a list of picks that includes podcasts, videos, books, and articles available for you to learn more. The list of resources will be in the show notes. Simply put, Black lives matter.","published":"June 5, 2020"},{"episode":"105","title":"A parcel of drinks - Parcel","description":"In previous episodes, we’ve talked a lot about bundling JavaScript, but we haven’t talked a lot about Parcel. In this episode, we are joined by Maia Teegarden, Will Binns-Smith, and Devon Govett to talk with us about Parcel JS.","published":"June 14, 2020"},{"episode":"106","title":"Carefully Sipping Sangria - CSS","description":"Writing CSS is quick to learn, but writing strong CSS patterns that can scale is a lot more challenging. In this episode, we are joined by Brad Frost to discuss useful patterns in CSS and the future of CSS.","published":"June 28, 2020"},{"episode":"107","title":"Public speakeasy - Public speaking","description":"Whether you’re giving a presentation to a large audience at a conference, your team, or articulating an idea, public speaking is an important skill set. In this episode, we are joined by Anne Ricketts to talk with us to share ways to be a strong presenter.","published":"July 12, 2020"},{"episode":"108","title":"Whiteboarding for our drinks - The coding interview","description":"We’ve all been there, coding interviews always have their challenges. In this episode, we are joined by Emma Bostian to talk with us about the technical coding interview. We share our experiences and thoughts on what we like and dislike about the various coding interviews.","published":"July 26, 2020"},{"episode":"109","title":"Quick pour - Web Performance","description":"Web performance continues to be an input factor to prioritize when building web applications. In this episode, we speak with Google engineers, Kristofer Baxtor, and Jason Miller about the latest best practices in web performance.","published":"August 09, 2020"},{"episode":"110","title":"Bartending to everyone - Inclusive language","description":"Alongside the Black Lives Matter movement, we’ve started to see a lot of positive discussions on how the tech community can be more inclusive with its language. In this episode, we will be discussing our thoughts on making tech language more inclusive.","published":"August 23, 2020"},{"episode":"111","title":"Patron, Palomas, and programmatic problem solving","description":"When we are writing code as engineers, no matter what programming language, we are doing some form of planning and problem solving. In this episode, we are talking about programmatic problem solving with Nicole Archambault.","published":"September 6, 2020"},{"episode":"112","title":"SEO - Searching for our drinks","description":"Build it and they will come, right? Wrong. Search Engine Optimization is a key component of how people will discover your website or application. In this episode, we are joined by Netflix engineer, Cole Turner to talk with us about the importance of SEO and ways to improve your ranking in search engines.","published":"September 20, 2020"},{"episode":"113","title":"Severless - serving(less) drinks","description":"Do you remember the days of FTP? In this episode, we are joined by Jerome Hardaway to talk with us about the changes made to hosting websites and how serverless has improved the ways we serve up websites and applications.","published":"October 4, 2020"},{"episode":"114","title":"Remote interviewing - drinking on video calls","description":"When you can’t interview in person, we are forced to interview over video calls. In this episode, we are joined by Bianca Bortolussi, and Jen Pi to talk with us about what it’s like to interview for a new role during these covid times.","published":"October 18, 2020"},{"episode":"115","title":"Imposter Syndrome - Wine connoisseur with a $15 bottle","description":"What’s it like to deal with Imposter Syndrome? In this episode, we are joined by Shirley Wu, to talk through each of our experiences dealing with imposter syndrome and have we’ve overcome it.","published":"November 4, 2020"},{"episode":"116","title":"Live at QCon Plus 2020","description":"In this episode, we were joined by our guests, Ben Ilegbodu and Jason Lengstorf to discuss frontend patterns live at this year's QCon Plus conference. On the panel, we shared our thoughts on various frontend trends and patterns being used. We also took questions from the live QCon Plus audience.","published":"November 15, 2020"},{"episode":"117","title":"Quitting a job - leaving the bar","description":"We’ve all decided at one point or another that it’s time to look for a new job. In this episode, we talk through reasons that lead to us looking for new opportunities in our past jobs.","published":"November 29, 2020"},{"episode":"118","title":"Good manager, bad manager - tasty drink, bland drink","description":"In our last episode, we talked about leaving a job, and one of those reasons for leaving was due to a bad manager. In this episode, we follow up our discussion on what makes a good manager.","published":"December 20, 2020"},{"episode":"119","title":"2020 reflections - Fireball shots","description":"In this episode, we will be reflecting on the past year and how things have drastically changed for how we work and how our companies have had to adapt during a pandemic.","published":"December 31, 2020"},{"episode":"120","title":"Building side projects - Served with a tasty Sidecar","description":"In this episode, we are joined by Evan Payne to talk with us about how we each approach side projects. Evan also shares a side project he’s built in Angular.","published":"Jan 17, 2020"},{"episode":"121","title":"Transitioning to a new role - Bar hopping","description":"At some point or another, we’ve all had to move to a new role or a new company. In this episode, we are joined by special guests Tara Ellis and Jared Jordan to help us discuss things we’ve learned to help transition to a new role or job.","published":"January 31, 2021"},{"episode":"122","title":"Productivity Engineering - Ballmer Peak","description":"How do developer teams stay productive? In this episode, we are talking with Kathryn Koehler and Andy Glover from the Netflix Productivity Engineering team to learn more about what a Productivity Engineering team does to help improve productivity.","published":"February 14, 2021"},{"episode":"123","title":"Documentation - the bartenders' almanac","description":"How important is documentation? In this episode, we share our thoughts and opinions on how we approach documentation and the tools that have helped us. ","published":"February 28, 2021"},{"episode":"124","title":"Software estimating - two finger pour","description":"When it comes to estimating the time it takes to build any software project, it’s never easy. There’s a lot of factors that go into estimating. In this episode, we talk about our experiences with estimating and ways we’ve improved it over the years.","published":"March 14, 2021"},{"episode":"125","title":"Non-traditional backgrounds - Old Fashioneds with a twist","description":"Not everyone starts their engineering career with a Computer Science degree, there are a lot of ways to start an engineering career. In this episode, we are joined by David Simmer from Netflix to talk with us about non-traditional backgrounds.","published":"March 28, 2021"},{"episode":"126","title":"Core Web Vitals - Vital libations","description":"Optimizing websites for a quality user experience is key to the long-term success of any site on the web and Core Web Vitals is an initiative Google has provided as a unified guidance for quality signals that are essential to delivering a great user experience on the web. Addy Osmani and Kristofer Baxter, from Google, join us to talk more about Core Web Vitals.","published":"April 11, 2021"},{"episode":"127","title":"Writing a technical book - drafts on tap","description":"Our very own Shirley Wu and her friend, Nadieh Bremer recently wrote a book called, Data Sketches so we wanted to learn more about what it’s like to write a technical book. In this episode, we are joined by Nadieh to talk with us about the process of writing and having a book published. ","published":"April 25, 2021"},{"episode":"128","title":"Branding & self-promotion - mimosa and self-promosa","description":"As you build your career, it’s helpful to think about your personal brand and how you promote yourself in the industry. In this episode, we are joined by Alice Lee, to talk with us about how each of us approach branding and self-promotion.","published":"May 9, 2021"},{"episode":"129","title":"Allyship - Inviting everyone to the party","description":"A big way to help make a more inclusive tech industry, we need strong allies. In this episode, we are joined by Better Allies, Karen Catlin, to talk with us about allyship.","published":"May 23, 2021"},{"episode":"130","title":"Stack and infrastructure shaping culture - Drink choice to set the vibe","description":"In previous episodes we've talked about how to choose a technical stack and figure out what works best for you and your team. In this episode, we are joined by Jason Lengstorf to talk about how the choice of stack and infrastructure reflects the company culture.","published":"June 6, 2021"},{"episode":"131","title":"Diversity and inclusion - Tech(K)now Day","description":"This was a live panel discussion at the Tech(K)now Day conference that took place on March 8, 2021. We did a live episode with the conference organizer, Gen Ashley, who joined us to talk about diversity and inclusion in tech.","published":"July 4, 2021"},{"episode":"132","title":"Test Engineering - Beverage quality assurance","description":"Releasing a successful product in production requires testing. In this episode, we are joined by Preethi Sitaraman to talk with us about test engineering and how developers and test engineers can collaborate.","published":"July 18, 2021"},{"episode":"133","title":"It’s 5 o’clock somewhere - Joining a remote team","description":"With a lot of companies now hiring more remote employees, we wanted to talk about what it’s like to join a new team being fully remote. In this episode, we are joined by Laurie Barth and Lucero Carmona to share their thoughts on what the experience joining a remote team has been like.","published":"August 8, 2021"},{"episode":"134","title":"Individual contributor to manager - Transitioning into a bartender","description":"In this episode, we talk about what it’s like to go from an individual contributor engineer, to an engineering manager. With Jem recently moving into a manager role, Nazanin Delam and Dan DiGangi joined us to share more about their experiences moving into management.","published":"August 22, 2021"},{"episode":"135","title":"Dealing with burnout - Burnt Orange Campari","description":"Who’s ever had to deal with burnout? In this episode, we are joined by two guests, Vaidehi Joshi, and Eli to share their experiences dealing with burnout. We all share how burnout has shown up for us throughout our careers and how we’ve found ways to deal with it or prevent it.","published":"September 5, 2021"},{"episode":"136","title":"Old Fashioned, old roles, new beginnings","description":"It’s always hard to know when is the right time to make a career change. There’s likely never a perfect time, but in this episode, we talk about how we have made decisions and what’s worked and what hasn’t.","published":"September 19, 2021"},{"episode":"137","title":"One drink and a monolithic architecture","description":"We've often talked about micro-services and monolithic architectures on previous episodes. In this episode, we are joined by Katherine Peterson to talk with us about her experience working with a monolithic codebase.","published":"October 3, 2021"},{"episode":"138","title":"Bar debate - Smart homes","description":"If you've listened to past episodes, you've likely heard Ryan and Jem disagree about smart home devices or IoT. In this episode, the two of them have a friendly debate around their thinking of smart homes and what the pros and cons are.","published":"October 17, 2021"},{"episode":"139","title":"Preparing ingredients - Interview prep","description":"There’s no way around, at some point, you will likely be interviewing. Why not be prepared? In this episode, we share our thoughts and experiences interviewing and how we approach preparing for an upcoming interview for a new role.","published":"October 31, 2021"},{"episode":"140","title":"Crafting your cocktail mixture to learning","description":"In this episode, we are joined by Loren Sands-Ramshaw to talk with us about education paths for software engineers. There are so many options out there and it's really hard to know what's the right path to take.","published":"November 28, 2021"},{"episode":"141","title":"2021 Hangover","description":"Happy New Year! We are back with more episodes in 2022 and to start off the year, we want to reflect on changes that happened in 2021. In this episode, we cover technology changes, our lives, and our career changes that happened in 2021.","published":"January 9, 2022"},{"episode":"142","title":"Job hunting in 2022 - Standing out in a crowded bar","description":"Recruiting and interviewing isn’t a new topic, it’s one we’ve covered a few times, but this episode focuses on the changes that have happened with the landscape for jobs and interviewing during the pandemic. In this episode, we are joined by Taylor Desseyn, and Jono Grayson to talk with us about ways to stand out and navigate the job search in 2022.","published":"January 23, 2022"},{"episode":"143","title":"TypeScript migration - Strict type of cocktails","description":"Software Engineers deal with migrations at some point or another, and there are always a lot of lessons learned afterward. In this episode, we are joined by Sumana Mohan and Joe King from Netflix to talk about their recent migration to TypeScript on the Netflix website signup flow.","published":"February 6, 2022"},{"episode":"144","title":"Sidebar interview with Ryan Burgess","description":"Our sidebar interview specials interview our panelists individually to learn more about their backgrounds and careers. In this episode, we interview Ryan Burgess, the creator of the Front End Happy Hour podcast.","published":"February 20, 2022"},{"episode":"145","title":"Server Driven UI - Served from behind the bar","description":"What is server-driven UI and what are the advantages to taking this approach? In this episode, we are joined by the Netflix engineer, Cole Turner to talk with us about the advantages and disadvantages of server-driven UI.","published":"March 6, 2022"},{"episode":"146","title":"Sidebar interview with Jem Young","description":"Our sidebar interview specials interview our panelists individually to learn more about their backgrounds and careers. In this episode, we interview Jem Young, to learn more about his background and career.","published":"March 20, 2022"},{"episode":"147","title":"Debugging Asynchronous JavaScript - Awaiting My Drink","description":"Have you found debugging asynchronous JavaScript to be hard? You’re not alone. In this episode, we are joined by Jenn Creighton from Netflix to talk with us about a talk she’ll be giving at Reactathon on debugging async JavaScript to help make it a bit easier.","published":"April 7, 2022"},{"episode":"148","title":"Sidebar interview with Stacy London","description":"Our sidebar interview specials interview our panelists individually to learn more about their backgrounds and careers. In this episode, we interview Stacy London, to learn more about her background and career.","published":"April 24, 2022"},{"episode":"149","title":"Open source software with open liquor","description":"The tech industry relies a lot on open source software. In this episode, we are joined by Jesse Tomchak to talk with us about open source.","published":"May 8, 2022"},{"episode":"150","title":"Reorgs with a sip of spiced rum","description":"An organization going through a reorg is a normal evaluation to meet the needs of the business, but it can be a lot of change. In this episode, we talk about our experiences with reorgs.","published":"May 22, 2022"},{"episode":"151","title":"Building in 2022 and tasting the beverage trends","description":"With this ever-changing landscape of technologies, we spend this episode talking with Rhian van Esch and Carlos Castro about the current trends of web development in 2022.","published":"June 5, 2022"}] \ No newline at end of file +[{"episode":"001","title":"The State of Web Development","description":"For our very first episode of the Front End Happy Hour podcast, we have our panelists (Augustus Yuan, Derrick Showers, Jem Young, Ryan Anklam and Ryan Burgess) discuss their opinions on the Medium article posted in early January, titled \"The Sad State of Web Development\", written by Drew Hamlett. The panel shares their thoughts on front end tools and how they view the current state of web development.","published":"February 29, 2016"},{"episode":"002","title":"RxJS - Async and Drink","description":"In the second episode of the Front End Happy Hour podcast, our special guest, Ben Lesh joins us to talk about all the great things in RxJS 5.","published":"March 16, 2016"},{"episode":"003","title":"From head to footer","description":"In this ever changing industry of front end development, developers are constantly learning. In this episode of Front End Happy Hour we discuss everything from our school backgrounds and what lead us to front end development. We also share ways we stay up to date with the ever-changing landscape of new technologies. Along with our usual panelists, we are joined by guest Sarah Showers, a front end developer from Apple.","published":"March 24, 2016"},{"episode":"004","title":"ES6 and a Six Pack","description":"ECMAScript 6 was a major release for the JavaScript language. There’s a lot of great new features that have been added. In this episode we discuss how you can start using ES6 today and what we’ll start seeing in the next year for the latest update to ECMAScript. We share our favorite features and the best ways to learn and stay up to date with new features.","published":"April 04, 2016"},{"episode":"005","title":"Interviews make us drink","description":"In order to work professionally as a front end developer, there is always an intense interview process. In this episode, we share our experiences and thoughts on the interviews we’ve done in the past. Not only have we had experience being interviewed, we’ve also had a lot of experience interviewing other engineers for jobs at our companies. We share things we’re looking for when we interview candidates to join our teams.","published":"April 14, 2016"},{"episode":"006","title":"Unit testing and whiskey tasting","description":"We’ve all heard unit testing is good, but how do you get started writing unit tests? In this episode of Front End Happy Hour we share our experiences and advice writing unit tests. We discuss why it’s important and beneficial to have unit tests in your JavaScript. We share how we’ve approached unit tests and what a good unit test looks like. We also talk about the various tools and frameworks available to get your code properly tested.","published":"April 25, 2015"},{"episode":"007","title":"a11y Cocktail","description":"In this episode, we have a special guest joining us to talk about digital accessibility, Jennison Asuncion who is a leader in the accessibility community and has a lot of information to help us improve our websites and applications be more accessible for all users. We also talk about Global Accessibility Awareness Day (GAAD) coming up on May 19th. Find out how you can participate.","published":"May 15, 2016"},{"episode":"008","title":"A Shot of Silicon Valley","description":"Working in Silicon Valley is very unique. We work in a bubble, immersed in technology. There are billboards about frameworks, technology, and gadgets. Coffee shops are filled with people on Macbooks covered in stickers. Conversations on the train, coffee shops and on the streets are about programming languages. There’s a unique culture from other places we’ve all lived. In this episode, we share our thoughts and experiences living and working in Silicon Valley.","published":"May 24, 2016"},{"episode":"009","title":"Scotch makes us animated","description":"In this episode we learn about animating with JavaScript. We’re joined by a special guest, Sarah Drasner, who is an expert in JavaScript and SVG animations. Having good animations in your product is really important for the overall user experience. In the episode we discuss various libraries to help create animations in your websites or applications. Sarah shares a lot of valuable information.","published":"June 6, 2016"},{"episode":"010","title":"Raise your glass to women in tech","description":"In the technology industry we’re continually trying to grow the diversity of people who are working in the space. Most recently there have been a lot of great efforts made to increase the number of women in tech. In this episode we are joined by two talented women working at large tech companies in the Bay Area, Lisa Burgess (Uber) and Mars Jullian (Netflix). We discuss what it’s like to be a women working in tech and talk about ways we can help foster a more inclusive industry.","published":"July 12, 2016"},{"episode":"011","title":"Transpilers - slow down and drink","description":"Leveraging transpilers is extremely helpful in allowing us to extend the JavaScript language in ways JavaScript engines cannot. There are a lot of amazing transpilers available in the JavaScript community and we all love transpilers, but there are things developers should be aware of when we’re using transpilers.","published":"July 27, 2016"},{"episode":"012","title":"Ninja Rockstar Whiskey Drinker With 10 Years IPA Experience","description":"As an engineer or developer we currently fortunate enough to have a wide selection of amazing jobs and companies to work for. Although we have a wide selection of jobs, finding the right one is extremely important and may require some additional work. In this episode, we are joined by the guests Chrissy Running and Alayna Ketner who are both talented recruiters at Netflix. Chrissy and Alayna have a lot of experience working with engineers to help find the ideal role. We’ll discuss types of things companies are looking for and how you can best leverage competitive offers in your job searches.","published":"August 8, 2016"},{"episode":"013","title":"Drinking in the present to learn future JavaScript","description":"In episode 13 of the Front End Happy Hour podcast, we’re joined by Jafar Husain from Netflix to talk with us about the future of JavaScript. Jafar is part of the TC-39 committee that helps determine the future specs of ECMAScript. Jafar shares a lot of interesting insights into how the committee works and how a feature makes it's way into the spec. Jafar also talks to us about Observables and cancellable promises.","published":"August 17, 2016"},{"episode":"014","title":"Hangovers and hotels: engineer conferences","description":"Conferences continue to be a great way to learn and grow as an engineer. In the 14th episode of the Front End Happy Hour podcast we discuss the value of conferences and why you might want to attend. It’s a special episode because we recorded at React Rally in Salt Lake City. At the conference we caught up with a lot of great attendees and speakers to hear about their experiences at conferences and the benefits for attending.","published":"August 28, 2016"},{"episode":"015","title":"A flight of JavaScript frameworks","description":"In the JavaScript community, we have a lot of amazing frameworks that help us in our day to day work. It can be at times overwhelming to understand what framework is the best one to use. In this episode, we discuss our thoughts and opinions on the various frameworks.","published":"September 12, 2016"},{"episode":"016","title":"Spilled beer and epic fails","description":"As an engineer we build things, but we also make mistakes or introduce bugs into the software we write. In this episode, we share horror stories of things that we’ve experienced in our careers and how we’ve learned from them. Hopefully, this episode helps you avoid making similar mistakes.","published":"September 25, 2016"},{"episode":"017","title":"Managing our drinks","description":"In this episode, we are joined by Chris Saint-Amant from Netflix to help discuss what it’s like to transition from being an engineer to becoming an engineering manager. We share our thoughts on what engineers expect in their manager and share advice for engineers interested in moving into a management role.","published":"October 13, 2016"},{"episode":"018","title":"Shotgunning websites: web performance","description":"Users are extremely sensitive to web performance. The slightest change in a website’s load time can impact a user staying or going. In this episode we talk about ways to help improve web performance and why it’s so important.","published":"October 29, 2016"},{"episode":"019","title":"Drinking to digital nomads","description":"The idea of working remotely has become more realistic over the past few years, making it easier for engineers to do their work without being tied to a physical location. In this episode, we are joined by Darren Buckner, Founder and CEO of Workfrom, and Sarah Showers from LinkedIn. Both guests will join us to discuss the pros and cons of working from your favorite coffee shop.","published":"November 7, 2016"},{"episode":"020","title":"Wasted on workflows","description":"We are lost without our tools. In this episode, we share the tools and applications we can’t live without. We discuss what development environments we use and plugins we find useful.","published":"November 20, 2016"},{"episode":"021","title":"Mixed drinks and Mixed languages","description":"Have you had to deal with supporting more than one language in your web application? Offering content in several languages makes a better experience for your users but it can add many layers of complexity in your application’s design and architecture. In this episode we’ll be discussing the ways we have dealt with supporting multiple languages.","published":"December 5, 2016"},{"episode":"022","title":"Drinking with more style and less sass","description":"Writing CSS seems pretty straight forward until your project and team starts to grow. CSS has a lot of issues, in this episode we share some advice for making it a little bit easier. We’ll also discuss ways to create a scalable CSS architecture for large projects and teams.","published":"December 16, 2016"},{"episode":"023","title":"Ember - Gin & Tomster","description":"Ember is a growing JavaScript framework that large companies like LinkedIn are using for their web application. In this episode, we are joined by Stacy London from Atlassian to discuss the advantages and disadvantages of leveraging Ember as a JavaScript framework.","published":"December 30, 2016"},{"episode":"024","title":"The hangover of 2016","description":"As we look forward to all the great trends and changes that will happen in 2017, in this episode we discuss our thoughts and opinions on the various development trends and notable things that happened in 2016. Looking forward on 2017, we share some of the things we’re excited to see in the new year.","published":"January 15, 2017"},{"episode":"025","title":"From bar-back to frontender","description":"We’ve all started out somewhere in our career. In previous episodes, we’ve talked about various ways we’ve learned front end development, but haven’t touched on mentorship. In this episode, Sarah Showers joins us in the conversation about starting out as a junior developer and how mentors helped shape us into senior developers.","published":"January 24, 2017"},{"episode":"026","title":"Design, neat","description":"In this episode, we’re joined by Julie Horvath, a Design Lead at Apple to help us talk about design. We discuss ways to help improve the collaboration between designers and frontend developers. Julie shares her perspective on building great user experiences for low-bandwidth internet speeds and how taking a progressive enhancement approach can be beneficial to the user.","published":"February 7, 2017"},{"episode":"027","title":"A drink for the \"Rust\" of us","description":"Rust is an exciting systems programming language that’s being developed in Mozilla. In this episode, we’re joined by Jafar Husain to talk about the Rust and what the benefits of leveraging a language like Rust. We also talk about why a JavaScript engineer would want to learn Rust and how it can help them in their JavaScript coding.","published":"February 15, 2017"},{"episode":"028","title":"JavaScript Universi-LongIslandIce-ty","description":"We’ve all started somewhere. JavaScript isn’t always an easy language to learn. In this episode, we’re joined by Gordon Zhu, who teaches workshops on JavaScript at Watch and Code. We are also joined by Luis Vargas, a Senior Manager on Global Payments at Netflix who has recently been learning JavaScript and has attended one of Gordon’s workshops. In this episode, we all talk about our journey of learning JavaScript and ways we’ve worked through it.","published":"February 26, 2017"},{"episode":"029","title":"Alcoholic Angular","description":"In this episode, we’re joined by our special guest, Ayşegül Yönet, a Software Engineer Autodesk, who will help us discuss the popular Google JavaScript framework Angular. In the episode, we discuss the benefits of leveraging Angular and what the major differences are from Angular 1 and Angular 2.","published":"March 12, 2017"},{"episode":"030","title":"Static site generators and dynamic drink drinkers","description":"Websites have gotten a lot more complicated over the years. What happened to static HTML? In this episode we’re joined by Harry Wolff, the creator of Reptar, to talk about leveraging build tools to create static generated sites. We talk about the pros and cons of leveraging a static site generator for a website. We also discuss some of the tools available to help you get started.","published":"March 24, 2017"},{"episode":"031","title":"A flaming shot of burnout","description":"Burnout is not a rare phenomenon that engineers deal with. In this episode, we talk about the ways we’ve been affected by burnout and how we’ve dealt with it. We discuss past experiences that have created burnout for us and ways we can prevent it from happening in the future.","published":"April 9, 2017"},{"episode":"032","title":"Imposter Syndrome - These are not the drinks you're looking for","description":"What’s it like to deal with Imposter Syndrome? In this episode, we are joined by Jessica Grist, a Software Engineer at Adroll to discuss how we’ve all experience Imposter Syndrome in our careers and share ways to help deal with it.","published":"April 23, 2017"},{"episode":"033","title":"One part beer, three parts web components. Add lemon to taste","description":"In this episode, we are joined by Trey Shugart who is a front-end developer (Principal Developer) at Atlassian, proponent of web components, and author of SkateJS to talk about Web Components.","published":"May 7, 2017"},{"episode":"034","title":"npm install beer --save-in-mouth","description":"In this episode, we are joined by Laurie Voss, the COO and former CTO at npm. Npm, also known as Node Package Manager has been an important tool in the JavaScript community and has helped engineers share their code. In today’s episode, we’ll be discussing how we leverage npm and find out what we can expect from npm 5. Laurie also teaches us some cool tricks that exist in the npm cli.","published":"May 22, 2017"},{"episode":"035","title":"Top shelf style guides","description":"In this episode, we’re joined by Jyri Tuulos and Josh London to help discuss reusable components and building style guides. Jyri is a Staff Engineer at AdRoll and Josh is a Senior Designer at Netflix. We discuss best practices companies are leveraging style guides and reusable components. We also share the positives and negatives to having a style guide.","published":"June 4, 2017"},{"episode":"036","title":"First drink at a new bar","description":"Starting a new job is never easy, but a good onboarding process can make all the difference. In this episode, we talk about our experiences with onboarding at companies we’ve worked at and share our thoughts on what makes a good experience when starting a new job.","published":"June 18, 2017"},{"episode":"037","title":"Amazing Manhattans Anywhere","description":"We’ve received a lot of great questions from our listeners and wanted to take the time to answer them as an AMA (Ask Me Anything) episode. Thank you all for the great questions, we had a lot of fun answering them.","published":"July 5, 2017"},{"episode":"038","title":"Plotting our drinks","description":"In this episode, we’re joined by Shirley Wu, a Freelance Software Engineer who focuses on Data Visualization. Shirley shares a lot of knowledge about Data Visualization using JavaScript.","published":"July 17, 2017"},{"episode":"039","title":"Smashed after a Swift shot","description":"In this episode, we’re joined by Stefan Stumpfl, a mobile software engineer at LinkedIn working on LinkedIn Learning. During the past 5 years as an iOS developer, he has experience ranging from building his own app on a small 2-person team to larger teams like his current role at LinkedIn. In this episode, we will discuss the Swift programming language – how it compares to languages like Javascript and some of the advantages and disadvantages to writing and learning it.","published":"July 30, 2017"},{"episode":"040","title":"React Native - Mix Once, Drink Everywhere","description":"In this episode, we’re joined by Naoufal Kadhom, a Software Engineer from Netflix who’s also just released a payment library for React Native. In the episode, we’ll be discussing React Native and what it’s like to leverage it for Android and iOS applications.","published":"August 14, 2017"},{"episode":"041","title":"Maintaining a healthy buzz","description":"Maintaining and scaling code is an important aspect of our careers. In this episode, we discuss and share ideas to help keep a healthy code base that will scale with your company.","published":"August 27, 2017"},{"episode":"042","title":"Work hard, drink hard","description":"There’s always a lot to be done, but having a good work life balance is extremely important. In this episode, we are joined by Sarah Showers from LinkedIn, to talk with us about work life balance. We share our thoughts on what work life balance means to us and how our companies help foster a healthy work life balance.","published":"September 13, 2017"},{"episode":"043","title":"Our first drink","description":"We all had to start somewhere. In this episode, we are joined by Preethi Kasireddy to talk with us about her and our experiences of being a beginner to coding.","published":"October 1, 2017"},{"episode":"044","title":"Champagne ideas and caviar dreams","description":"Writing great code isn’t always the only part of our jobs. In order to impact changes on our teams or the business, we need to be able to persuade others to buy into your ideas. This could be in the form of migrating to a new technology, process or even adding a new feature to a product. In this episode, we are joined by Shirley Wu to help us discuss how we can best sell our ideas and make an impact on our teams or clients.","published":"October 15, 2017"},{"episode":"045","title":"Getting the bartender's attention","description":"In a previous episode, we discussed working with a recruiter during a job interview process. In this episode, we’re joined by Netflix recruiter, Bianca Bortolussi to discuss ways to help your engineering profile stand out to recruiters and hiring managers.","published":"October 29, 2017"},{"episode":"046","title":"Locking down the liquor","description":"In this episode of the Front End Happy Hour podcast, we discuss how as front end engineers we can impact security vulnerabilities in the applications and websites we are creating.","published":"November 14, 2017"},{"episode":"047","title":"Speak(easy)","description":"Often times in our careers we’ve wanted to speak at conferences, meetups or even within our companies. It’s been a great way to share ideas and things we’ve learned. Giving a tech talk isn’t always the easiest thing. In this episode, we’ll be discussing what we’ve learned from our experiences and share advice on ways to help improve your next talk.","published":"November 26, 2017"},{"episode":"048","title":"Toast to a new year","description":"It’s been a great year! With 2017 coming to an end, we’ve decided to talk the highlights, trends, and disappointments of the year. We also talk about what we’re excited about in 2018.","published":"December 18, 2017"},{"episode":"049","title":"Independent taste testing","description":"We are back in 2018, for the first episode of the New Year we have two special guests, Shirley Wu and Amy Wibowo to talk with us about freelancing and running your own business. We discuss how to start freelance work, how to manage clients and how to handle difficult clients.","published":"January 21, 2018"},{"episode":"050","title":"Angling for a drink","description":"For our 50th episode, we are on stage live at the 2018 ngATL conference. We are joined by four of the talented speakers, Aimee Knight, Simona Cotin, John Papa, and April Wensel to talk about the state of Angular.","published":"February 5, 2018"},{"episode":"051","title":"Gin and toxic culture","description":"In this episode, we’ll be discussing things we’ve noticed in companies that have unhealthy culture, shady business practices, moving business targets and more. We talk about ways to avoid an unhealthy culture and how to help improve one.","published":"February 18, 2018"},{"episode":"052","title":"Looking Forward to a drink","description":"In this episode, we recorded live on stage at Forward JS conference in San Francisco. We were joined by our special guest, Allen Wirfs-Brock to talk about how the web has changed over the years and how JavaScript has been a large influence.","published":"March 4, 2018"},{"episode":"053","title":"Bar-tending to your codebase","description":"In this episode, we recorded live at SacJS event in Sacramento, California. On stage, we discuss the challenges of migrating a codebase and when to make the decision its the right time to refactor. We share lessons we’ve learned from past experiences.","published":"March 18, 2018"},{"episode":"054","title":"Wasted on Elm","description":"In this episode, we are joined by Richard Feldman to talk about the functional language Elm, which compiles to JavaScript. In the episode, we learn about the benefits to leveraging Elm and how to get started.","published":"April 1, 2018"},{"episode":"055","title":"A mixologist's tools","description":"In this episode, we discuss how we stay productive in our jobs. To help us with the discussion, we’re joined by Ellen Chisa, CEO, and Cofounder of Dark. We talk about tools and strategies we’ve found useful to help stay productive.","published":"April 16, 2018"},{"episode":"056","title":"Drink-a-thon onstage at Reactathon","description":"In this episode, we were live on stage at Reactathon conference in San Francisco discussing how to scale a React application. We share our thoughts on to best approaches to creating a good structure for your codebase at scale. We also share our experiences we’ve learned over the years how to scale our React applications.","published":"April 29, 2018"},{"episode":"057","title":"Falcor - Modeling our drinks","description":"In this episode, we’re joined by the Netflix Software Engineer, Anup Bishnoi to talk with us about the Netflix, open source, virtual JSON graph library, Falcor.","published":"April 13, 2018"},{"episode":"058","title":"User testing - Even a drunk person can do it","description":"A lot of the work we do impacts the people using the product or application we’ve made and it’s important to understand how our users resonate with the products we create. A great way to better understand what works for a user is by doing user testing. In this episode, we’ll be discussing user testing.","published":"May 28, 2018"},{"episode":"059","title":"A/B testing - Ale or Bourbon?","description":"In our previous episode, we talked about user testing and to better understand how a product or application resonates with users. In this episode, we’re joined by Lisa Burgess to help talk with us about another great way to get user feedback, A/B testing.","published":"June 10, 2018"},{"episode":"060","title":"Shots to growlers - finding the right size drink","description":"In this episode, we are joined by Shirley Wu and Brian Holt to talk with us about the various experiences we’ve had with startups, large companies, agencies, and freelance work.","published":"June 24, 2018"},{"episode":"061","title":"Build tooling - brewing complex bundles","description":"The front end ecosystem of build tooling continues to grow and become more powerful over the years. In this episode, we’re joined by Jamie Kyle and Maia Teegarden to talk with us about the power of build tools.","published":"July 8, 2018"},{"episode":"062","title":"Web Components - Shots of shadow dom","description":"In this episode, we talk with Ravi Srinivas and Erick Purino from Netflix to share how they are leveraging Web Components to create dynamic advertisements across the web.","published":"July 22, 2018"},{"episode":"063","title":"IoT - Internet of Tequila","description":"In this episode, we share our thoughts on IoT and smart devices in the home. We also talk about how JavaScript can be used to create your own smart devices. To talk with us about the smart devices, we’re joined by our guest, Sarah Showers from LinkedIn.","published":"August 5, 2018"},{"episode":"064","title":"Librations - JavaScript libraries","description":"In this episode, we’ll be discussing JavaScript libraries. We talk about when to use a library and when it might not be that practical.","published":"August 19, 2018"},{"episode":"065","title":"Recruiting - do you have time for a quick beer?","description":"We’ve had a lot of great recruiting discussions on previous episodes. In this episode, we’re joined by 3 recruiters, Matt Stephenson, Zack Skelly, and Chris Ahsing from 3 different startups to talk with us about how to stand out as an engineer, and what questions to ask recruiters about opportunities.","published":"September 2, 2018"},{"episode":"066","title":"Type systems - a static drink list","description":"Static type systems in JavaScript provide a lot of value and have been growing in popularity. In this episode, we’re joined by Lauren Tan and Kunal Bohra to talk with us about the benefits of leveraging a type system in your codebase.","published":"September 16, 2018"},{"episode":"067","title":"Ethics - to drink or not to drink?","description":"In this episode, we recorded a special live discussion on ethics in software development. The panel discussion was part of Certified Fresh Events with host Brian Rinaldi.","published":"September 30, 2018"},{"episode":"068","title":"Progressive Web Apps - Pale Wheat Ale","description":"Progressive Web Apps have been hailed as the next big leap forward in building web applications. In this episode we’re joined by Aaron Gustafson from Microsoft to talk all about PWA’s and the future of the web.","published":"October 14, 2018"},{"episode":"069","title":"Internships - Intern-sips","description":"Starting your career is a daunting task. You’ve learned these brand new skills, but how do you apply them and get experience? In this episode, we are joined by Moira Huang, to help us talk about internships and how best leverage an internship into a full time job.","published":"October 28, 2018"},{"episode":"070","title":"Senior Engineer - Master Brewer","description":"We are often asked, what makes you a Senior Software Engineer. It’s not an easy answer, there are a lot of interesting thoughts and responses. In this episode, we are joined by Lauren Tan to help discuss our thoughts on what makes someone be a Senior Software Engineer over a Software Engineer.","published":"November 25, 2018"},{"episode":"071","title":"Web Performance - Chugging our drinks down fast","description":"Creating performant websites and applications continue to be more and more important. In this episode, we are joined by Addy Osmani to talk with us about web performance and some future web platform APIs that help improve performance.","published":"December 9, 2018"},{"episode":"072","title":"Pacing our drinks - Engineering Performance","description":"Creating performant websites and applications continues to be really important, but what about engineering performance? How do we make sure we are improving our productivity as engineers? In this episode, we are joined Jacques Favreau and Michael Paulson from Netflix to hear more about their thoughts on being more productive.","published":"January 6, 2019"},{"episode":"073","title":"Drinks to go - Native mobile solutions","description":"There are a lot of great solutions available to support a native mobile experience for your application, but what’s the best option? In this episode we are joined by Jordanna Kwok from Netflix, to talk with us about some of the solutions and how to think through the best solution.","published":"January 20, 2019"},{"episode":"074","title":"Beer money - negotiating salaries","description":"We’ve talked about interviewing for engineering jobs, but once you have an offer, how do you negotiate the salary? In this episode, we’re joined by Matthew Gerstman, an engineer from Dropbox to talk with us about salaries, and stock.","published":"February 3, 2019"},{"episode":"075","title":"Component libraries - sharing our drinks","description":"In this episode, we are joined by Jeeyun Linn, and Cole Turner to talk with us about building and using component libraries in a company.","published":"February 18, 2019"},{"episode":"076","title":"Bandersnatching our drinks","description":"Bandersnatch is an exciting Netflix interactive film that’s not only an amazing story, it has seamless experience that Netflix engineering teams have created. In this episode, we are joined by engineering managers, Maria Kazandjieva, Maxine Cheung, and Courtney Kennedy to talk about the work their teams have done to make Bandersnatch possible.","published":"March 3, 2019"},{"episode":"077","title":"Career growth - beers and careers","description":"In past episodes, we’ve shared our thoughts on helping others grow or how to help interns in your company, but we haven’t discussed our thoughts on our own career growth. In this episode, we’ll share our thoughts and opinions on career growth.","published":"March 31, 2019"},{"episode":"078","title":"Our drinking is overrated","description":"In this episode, Jem and Ryan each toss out frontend terms, languages, technologies, and patterns to debate if they are underrated or overrated.","published":"April 14, 2019"},{"episode":"079","title":"Home-brewing front end culture","description":"In this episode, we are joined by Katie Sylor-Miller, a Staff Software Engineer from Etsy, to talk with us about ways to help build and foster a frontend culture within your companies.","published":"April 28, 2019"},{"episode":"080","title":"User experience - what if users are drunk?","description":"In this episode, we are joined by Randall Koutnik, a Senior Software Engineer at Slack to talk with us about how we should be thinking about ways to build better user experiences.","published":"May 14, 2019"},{"episode":"081","title":"CSS - continually sipping sazeracs","description":"In this episode, we are joined by Tyler Childs, a Senior Software Engineer at Netflix to talk with us about building out scalable CSS and share some of the exciting new features in the latest version of CSS.","published":"May 26, 2019"},{"episode":"082","title":"Product management - Pouring Martinis","description":"In this episode, we’re joined by product managers, Michael Spiegelman, Cathy Conk, and Eddy Wu from Netflix to talk with us about the relationship between engineers and product managers.","published":"June 9, 2019"},{"episode":"083","title":"Behind the bar - Collaborating with the Backend","description":"In this episode, we are joined by Ujjwal Tyagi and Eric Eiswerth to talk with us about how Backend and Frontend engineers can be most effective collaborating.","published":"June 23, 2019"},{"episode":"084","title":"Niagara Falls, on the rocks - development process","description":"There are quite a few ways to organize a team to build out a new feature. Two of the most talked-about are Waterfall and Agile. In this episode, we’ll be talking through the pros and cons of some of the development processes we’ve encountered.","published":"July 21, 2019"},{"episode":"085","title":"The art of mixology - creative coding","description":"In this episode, we are joined by a returning guest, Shirley Wu to talk with us about the combination of code and art.","published":"August 4, 2019"},{"episode":"086","title":"A new brand of bourbon - code migrations","description":"We’ve all faced some form of code migration in the past and wanted to share some of the things we’ve learned. In this episode, we’re joined by Micah Ransdell, a Software Engineering Manager at Netflix to talk with us about migrating a codebase.","published":"August 18, 2019"},{"episode":"087","title":"Open bar - all things open source","description":"As engineers we have a lot of excellent tools and resources to help us do our jobs well, one of those resources is open source code. In this episode, we will be talking about all things open source.","published":"September 15, 2019"},{"episode":"088","title":"Tech lead engineer - herding cats & drinks","description":"We often talk a lot about growth paths as engineers. One of those growth paths could be a tech lead engineer. In this episode, we are joined by Tony Edwards to help talk with us about what the role and responsibilities of a lead engineer are.","published":"September 29, 2019"},{"episode":"089","title":"Hollywood Martinis - Netflix Studio Engineering","description":"In this episode, we are going to be talking with Priyankaa Vijayakumar and Lauren Tan about an interesting engineering effort their teams at Netflix are working on. Netflix continues to create its own content and Hollywood is an interesting world with a ton of opportunities for engineering to integrate technology to make things more efficient. Priyankaa and Lauren will be telling us more about those engineering challenges.","published":"October 27, 2019"},{"episode":"090","title":"Sipping our drinks, enjoying the Vue - Vue JS","description":"In this episode, we are joined by Sarah Drasner and Gift Egwuenu to talk with us about the popular JavaScript framework, VueJS.","published":"November 24, 2019"},{"episode":"091","title":"Balancing your drinks & belonging - Inclusion & Diversity in Tech","description":"It is really important to make sure our community is an inclusive environment for everyone to feel like they belong. In this episode, we are joined by Cher and Henry Zhu to talk with us about inclusion and diversity.","published":"December 8, 2019"},{"episode":"092","title":"Keeping the taps on - Holiday code freeze","description":"Happy Holidays! In this episode, we talk about supporting large applications over the holidays and what the best practices are in order to make sure your customers have 100% availability over the holidays.","published":"December 22, 2019"},{"episode":"093","title":"Beers and Careers - Career Management","description":"It can be really important to think about what you want in your career. In this episode, we are joined by Michael Gaskill to talk with us about career management.","published":"January 5, 2020"},{"episode":"094","title":"Will code for wine - Civic hacking","description":"It’s always great to be able to put our skills to good use. In this episode, we are joined by Sarah Yu to talk with us about civic hacking.","published":"January 20, 2020"},{"episode":"095","title":"Shot for Shot - One on Ones","description":"As engineers, we spend a lot of our time coding, but we also spend a lot of time in meetings. A typical meeting we are in is one on one meetings. In this episode, we talk about ways to get the most out of one on one meetings and avoid having bad ones.","published":"February 16, 2020"},{"episode":"096","title":"Our preferred beverages - Work preferences","description":"There’s a constant debate on what the preferred work environment is, in office, remote, or work from home. In this episode, we talk about our preferences and some of the pros and cons of each work option.","published":"March 1, 2020"},{"episode":"097","title":"Cocktail recipes - Design systems","description":"In this episode, we recorded live on stage at Root Insurance in Columbus, Ohio. We were joined by Jibran Kutik and Oliver Farshi to talk with about design systems and how engineers and designers collaborate.","published":"March 15, 2020"},{"episode":"098","title":"Drinking alone? Together? - Working from home","description":"With the COVID-19 situation, we are all confined to our homes. 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Wrong. Search Engine Optimization is a key component of how people will discover your website or application. In this episode, we are joined by Netflix engineer, Cole Turner to talk with us about the importance of SEO and ways to improve your ranking in search engines.","published":"September 20, 2020"},{"episode":"113","title":"Severless - serving(less) drinks","description":"Do you remember the days of FTP? In this episode, we are joined by Jerome Hardaway to talk with us about the changes made to hosting websites and how serverless has improved the ways we serve up websites and applications.","published":"October 4, 2020"},{"episode":"114","title":"Remote interviewing - drinking on video calls","description":"When you can’t interview in person, we are forced to interview over video calls. 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Addy Osmani and Kristofer Baxter, from Google, join us to talk more about Core Web Vitals.","published":"April 11, 2021"},{"episode":"127","title":"Writing a technical book - drafts on tap","description":"Our very own Shirley Wu and her friend, Nadieh Bremer recently wrote a book called, Data Sketches so we wanted to learn more about what it’s like to write a technical book. In this episode, we are joined by Nadieh to talk with us about the process of writing and having a book published. ","published":"April 25, 2021"},{"episode":"128","title":"Branding & self-promotion - mimosa and self-promosa","description":"As you build your career, it’s helpful to think about your personal brand and how you promote yourself in the industry. 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In this episode, we interview Shirley Wu, to learn more about her background and career.", + "id": "1268380768", + "published": "June 19, 2022", + "transcribed": true, + "category": "soft", + "tags": ["interviews"], + "panel": [ + "Ryan Burgess", + "Shirley Wu" + ], + "guests": [], + "links": [], + "picks": [ + ] + }, { "episode": "151", "title": "Building in 2022 and tasting the beverage trends", @@ -7,7 +25,11 @@ "published": "June 5, 2022", "transcribed": true, "category": "technical", - "tags": ["frontend", "technologies", "builds"], + "tags": [ + "frontend", + "technologies", + "builds" + ], "panel": [ "Ryan Burgess", "Jem Young", diff --git a/transcripts/151.js b/transcripts/151.js new file mode 100644 index 00000000..a5e2283b --- /dev/null +++ b/transcripts/151.js @@ -0,0 +1,277 @@ +module.exports = function() { + 'use strict'; + const transcript =` + +

Ryan Burgess
+Welcome to a brand new episode of the front end happier podcast. In this episode, we are joined by Rhian and Carlos to talk with us about the current landscape of web development in 2022. I know in the past, we've definitely covered various years of like where web development is, and it quite frankly, changes so fast that we could probably do this every other month. So it's great to kind of follow up on what's happening in 2022. Rand and Carlos, can you give brief introductions of who you are, what you do and what your favorite Happy Hour beverage is? + +Rhian Van Esche +Cool, I can start. My name is Rhian Van Esche. I'm a software engineer at St. Cloud, which is a company in the Netherlands that handles connections between online store merchants and Postal Services, helping people ship and do returns and things like that. I'm originally from the UK not from the Netherlands, as you might be able to tell and I have a live here with my my husband and my daughter who's almost two which is what keeps me busy these days. My favorite beverage is what I have right here, which is a good old fashioned gin and tonic color. Choice. + +

+

Carlos Castro
+Nice. Nice. Thank you. So my name is Carlos Castro I work at Netflix as a senior software engineer on the web member platform. I'm originally from Tijuana Mexico. And my favorite Happy Hour drink is just normal beer. But I always try new beers like RT Chanel or anything IPAs, etc. Do + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+you have a favorite type like is it IPA? Or is it lizard, a certain type that stands out for you? + +

+

Carlos Castro
+lagger? I'll go with like, or like blonde. Yeah, yeah, + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+right on. All right. Well, let's also give introduction of today's panelists. Stacey want to kick it off? + +

+

Stacy London
+Sure. I'm Stacy London. I'm a senior front end engineer on Trello, + +

+

Jem Young
+Jem Young, engineering manager at + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+Netflix, and I'm Ryan Burgess. I'm an engineering manager at Netflix as well. In each episode, the front end happier podcasts. We like to choose a keyword that if it's mentioned in on the episode, we will all take a drink. And what did we decide today's keyword is performed on your farm? + +

+

Carlos Castro
+What if I say perf? Does that count? + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+It's a good question. + +

+

Jem Young
+I think so I think historically. Thanks. So concatenation. Yeah, + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+we do. Can we count that? Or we allow it to pass without a drink? + +

+

Jem Young
+No, no? Should you be counted have to drink? Well, in this case, Rianne has to drink? I think that's how we've done it. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+All right. So perf performance, whatever it is, yes, we will all take a drink. All right, well, let's kick off the topic. First question is, what considerations do you have to make when building a web application in 2022? Because there is a lot out there. When you start a brand new project or web application? What do you think about what do you go do first? + +Rhian Van Esche +Yeah, I can kick off, I think, for me, it's the user who is your user. So as a front end, I always consider like, we're kind of the interface between the back end user, we get to make an enormous amount of technological decisions that affect them. So yeah, when I'm thinking about the user, like, where do they live? What's the infrastructure like? And also, what are we building for them, because that can change the kind of user that you have. So if you're building some kind of massive software as a service, you know, you're gonna get deep engagement, I know something like a JIRA, or a century, or people are doing deep work on it, that's going to be a little bit different kind of users. And if you're building a marketing site, or blog, site or news page, and also key for me is what kind of devices are they on? Is it fast, you know, ideal situation, you've got your MacBook, you're on a wired connection, super fast, everything is amazing. Or are you like, a nice sitting in the metro with your phone out, waiting for the connection to come back when you're in the station, so you can look up where the restaurant is, or something, which I think you know, we've all been there. And then related to that user is also for me, who are your direct competitors, because you've got to be as good if not better than them. So yeah, do some research there, find out how fast their site is, and make sure you're faster. Or that you're considering that when you start to make your tech choices. So for me, it's like, work out all that user stuff first, and then start to make technical decisions, if you have that latitude if you're starting a new project, because obviously we're not some of us have to work on existing things. And that's a bit more difficult than starting something new. That's where I would go first. + +

+

Carlos Castro
+I love that in like the terms of thinking thinking first of the user, it just made me thought of like from my from my self is what are we trying to achieve? That's the first one like, if this is going to be needed offline is going to be more static. So we need more performance. So you know we need to generate or more dynamic I also since you know I I'm a sucker for front end infrastructure, I naturally start thinking about like build systems, technologies linters, of course, taking into account what the user needs, but always thinking and also, are we going to need SEO? So maybe some server side rendering needs to be in there. All payments, unit stripe integration, PayPal integration. Then another thing is, is this the scale of the application? Is it going to be international? So we need to start thinking about internationalization localization? And of course, accessibility? I mean, always, always think of that. And data acts like what technology we're using, do we have an API already, like rest? Or should be, I don't know, graph, QL, etc? There's honestly like, there's tons of considerations. I don't even know where to start. And hosting. Yeah, + +Rhian Van Esche +I think especially for internationalization, that can be a big, like, you really have to build that in from the start. And you have to choose a tool that will let you do that, because trying to add that in later is a headache. Yeah, and I think also, within the tech choices that you make based on who your user is like, it's like, easy to default to, okay, single page application, single page application, it's like almost the industry default, like you see it. All the hiring posts, you see, it's like five years of framework experience, or whatever. Boot Camps are optimizing, learn, react in six weeks, etc. And I get that because that's exactly what the market is asking for. And I really, I actually love frameworks. I love the developer experience of it I love, especially in big teams, when you can share components and things that's really powerful. Things that are reusable. Some of these tools are fantastic. But if you and your initial user research phase, you were like, Okay, well, I'm building something that has almost no interactivity, and I need it to be super fast, because my competitors are super fast. And it's not going to have a lot of deep, you know, work that I could have shallow engagement, I guess, is what I'm trying to say, then the single page application is maybe not what you should reach for, because, yeah, you're gonna just end up having to refactor all that out. And I know, there's server side rendering. I know there's code splitting. But I do feel that like now in 2022, we're starting to see technologies that are letting us the awareness is really being built that we don't have to just start with create react app, or a new view app or a new Angular app. So that's really exciting to me, this year, I'm really seeing it explode, you know, lots of different groups working on different things that + +

+

Stacy London
+I was thinking to, you mentioned, components, and the idea that sparked the idea of like, design systems, and maybe like, depending on like the context of where you're building this app, like you're at a company that has a design system already, then you take that into consideration as well, like, does that design system have the kinds of things you need? And you know, what, what like, what kind of thing? Are you building? What? Do you need to build some stuff from scratch? Or can you take advantage of things that exist? If you have a design system? Or do you need to build a design system? Are you like, the first, you know that there's gonna be multiple apps eventually, like you're building some sort of suite of something, and you know that, that's going to be important. So maybe you plan some time out for that as well. + +

+

Jem Young
+I liked the answer. So far. Rihanna, I like your answer on user research and understanding the use case. And Carlos and Stacy, you're talking about, like, the tooling and what else you need? I think that's all great and lovely. I respectfully, I think the truth is how people decide to build web apps today, as they build with what they're most comfortable with. Like, in an ideal world, we would do all these things like, Hmm, do we need a single page application for this? Probably not, we can build some static HTML, or let's use some easy builder. But the reality is developers and engineers are engineers, and they want the challenge. So what I've seen is like people are aware of like, Yeah, we should probably look into what we should build, like the kind of technology. But what happens is we go with whoever is the loudest person in the room, or whoever is most comfortable with whatever, or I don't know, like some it biases board sorts of developer experience in the user experience. And that's something I've seen pretty consistently. I hope that's changing with like, the availability of tools, but I don't know, I'm a little cynical these days. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+Yeah, I'm gonna just say very similar to Jem, too. It's, you know, it's like, I love the approach that you both mentioned, actually, and Stacey, sorry, all three of you, is that, you know, starting out from that user experience, thinking about what's best for the user accessibility design systems, I would say maybe fits in more for like the developer experience, but even for the user experience of like, how do you have consistency and thinking about that, but yeah, oftentimes, I feel like we tend to lean towards like, oh, I want to try this new framework or like this is the latest and greatest or we spend so much time With build systems, right, like, Oh, I've got to have NPM installed all of it. And like, we spent so much time doing that, or it has to be a, you know, single page application, when in fact, really like, maybe a static page is great. Or we try and over, engineer everything. And we could have probably started MVP, getting something out the door, and just getting that minimal viable product to your users to start to iterate on. I think that, to me, is something that I continue to reflect on where I'm like, How can we start to learn faster, versus trying to build the ideal state and in basically in a box, because you haven't really got something out to your users? So I think like, all of what you're saying is where we should be starting. And I want to echo that, I think is all valid, valid points. + +

+

Carlos Castro
+Yeah, I wouldn't say that. It's definitely aspirational. Like when we think about what to consider, and like, trying to best practices, but like equity jam, like, you end up doing what either your company's doing already, and using the current infrastructure and the current libraries and current design system, because then who's gonna maintain that, right? Like, you're not a single person startup, or it's a company, it's a team. So you got to, you know, do the tools that a lot of people know. So it's maintainable, it's scalable, and you know, other people can pitch in when when you need it. So that's why I keep saying it's aspirational. But reality is a different one. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+So design systems have has come up a few times, right? We just have mentioned a couple times now. I'm very curious to hear everyone's thoughts on design systems, not that like, bad or good. But like, I personally, I think they're very great. Like, I think there's a lot of value to them. And companies are doing it better and better. But it is such a huge undertaking. And so I'm maybe curious of like, how do you even start that? Or how do you make it successful? Are there tools or things that are making it easier in 2022? + +

+

Carlos Castro
+I can speak a little bit about that, because I was paid for leading engineering design systems team. So I love that work. And I love that role. And basically, how it started was that there was a need for consistency across the site. Like we had multiple teams, multiple applications, they started becoming consistent colors, sizes, on typography, you know, etc, etc. So the need for a standardization of common components. What's that, right? Like? How do we declare buttons? How do we declare colors even. So, the like the way right now, I feel one of the things that a lot of people start using, or the face of the design system, of course, is the sign and you know, figma files and designers coming up with these patterns. And also engineering helping you identify these patterns, but then extracting the values that represent the design system, let's say as a generic way, what what is called like design tokens, right? Like the most atomic unit of a color, all the colors on the brand, all the sizes on the brand, whatever the typography is, you express this into a, let's say, agnostic format, like a JSON or a jumble, or a hammer, like a text field. And then you use a transformer, like there's there things like styled style, dictionary, believe and feel, and other like tools that basically grab that JSON and transform that into technology, specific formats, variables, CSS variables, less variables, or Sass, or even swift classes. So in paper, what we did was a design system for cross platform. So basically, we'll explore the tokens for swift classes, Android, XML, and CSS less variables in JavaScript variables. And then from that we build libraries representing the design using the token, so changes could be propagated just a few things, but it's a difficult undertake, like, it was a lot of work and a lot of convincing the teams because there's also the whole, you know, friction between feature work and consistency work, and Ryan is like, and then you know, we were like, Hey, can we please adopt the scientists them? And they're like, oh, but we need to do all these features, like there's no time. So that's also the painful part of making a design system, a scalable Arts Sciences company. + +Rhian Van Esche +Yeah, we're just putting together a design since we've been doing it for a while, actually, and absolutely echo what Carlos said, it's about we got to a point where well, I can remember when we had 41 shades of blue, which are very similar, you know, which have somehow got scattered all across the application. And he's got, oh, no, how did we get to this point? And so at that point, yeah, you can do some cleanup and so on. But then, as you scale up with more teams, which is exactly what happened with us, it all starts to creep back. So at that point, you've got to go okay, we've got it in force this somehow and that's where the design system starts begging, everyone has to use the design system. And that was incredibly helpful. But as you say, it's a massive amount of work because it's almost never done. And you can go back and iterate and say, access it, you know, it's got to be accessible as well. That's not necessarily a straightforward thing to do, depending on how complex your components are. And yeah, for us as well, the battle between feature work, and I guess design debt or tech debt, however you want to look at it, it's a struggle. And making people see the value of this consistency is super important. Because if a user has a consistent user experience, I think it's one of those little things that it's hard to quantify. But it has a real impact on what they feel when they browse through your application or your web page. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+I love that you called out the multiple shades of blue, Carlson jam can probably attest to this at the on the Netflix web application. Like for many years, it was like we joke that we had like, especially like 50 Shades of Grey was probably coming out at that time. But we had like 50 Shades of Grey, it was ridiculous. There was so many different in you're like, why like what is this been used for. And there was no rhyme or reason it was just people putting in trying to get the hex value, and it's just a little bit off. And so you throw that in there. And maybe it's a variable, maybe it's not, it's just was, like, inconsistent. And so I think that, yes, design systems make that more consistent, it is hard to see the value at first, it's a it is an investment, I agree that makes the user experience more consistent. But also, I think over time, the velocity of your engineering should be a lot faster to you're not having to reinvent the wheel, you can grab a component that's done, and throw it in, and then iterate on the pieces that are brand new. Also, if you have to change something, you can update that in one spot. And it updates everywhere keeps things consistent, but also, like you're not having to go and do that multiple places. + +

+

Stacy London
+Yeah, I was gonna say you can also just you don't even have to call it a design system, you can just start by like doing good, like, programmatic practices, like, you know, when you create, put some components and a component folder and call your, you know, button component. And it makes it really easy for people to know where something is and use it. And then, you know, put put some variables for all your colors, but you don't have to like, go, you know, if at the beginning, if you're small, and you're just starting out, maybe you just you don't have to call it a design system. You can just call it like, good, good. Code, hygiene and practices like making variables and sharing things. + +Rhian Van Esche +Yeah, I totally agree, Stacy, it doesn't have to prove this, like, you know, you've got a whole storybook and you've got a whole, you know, separate NPM package, which you can go down that road, and that's fine. But yeah, it can be just CSS variables. And that's the nice thing about the new CSS custom properties, you know, they're easy to inspect on the browser. That's one thing I really like to use. And I'm interested to hear you talk about that with regards to design tokens, Carlos, because I think that's really powerful that you start with a figma file. And then you end up with something that the developer could inspect in the browser, without having to have gone through necessarily some massive process of building out a design system, the tools are really helping us out these days. And also, just a point about, yeah, what people like to do that it makes you it's fast to iterate when you have a design system. 100% agree, because especially what I hear from developers I work with is, you know, these are smart people, they want to work on fun problems. They don't want to build a form for the 20th time, they want to just grab the components they need, put them together and work on the interesting part and get it out to users quickly and hear how it's actually performing. That's what developers are asking for these days. So we should let them do that. By giving them the tools to do that. + +

+

Jem Young
+I think what, to me, what I'm getting from from this conversation is the tools and technology exists to solve a lot of the problems. We're talking about internationalization, accessibility, performance, better user experience via design systems, chairs, chairs. So all the tooling exists. But we don't make use of these things necessarily. So why is that? Like we we have it still solutions, like we all know, I can look up how to do all this stuff. But there's still sites that are inaccessible, there's still sites that are slow. There's still sites that should have been a static site instead of Spa. So like, why are we still in the state that we're in, even though the solutions exist? + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+Do you all think it's just like, Is it maybe a bit overwhelming? + +

+

Carlos Castro
+Probably. I wanted to say that. I think at some point, you start lean and nimble, right, like, very good side. And as new future features come in, and product changes, and I feel like also the way of software development practices we have now it's more volatile than let's say 15 years ago. So we now have more need to change and with change comes editions, bigger bundle sizes, you know, maybe accessibility, I guess, how can we enforce or prevent or be I guess is that from the beginning or maybe we didn't talk about it when we say considerations, but one consideration could be it Starting, when you start that project, maybe put together some performance budgets and accessibility, you know, reporting, you know, as you start, so as you keep going, you don't regress. That's I guess I'm trying to see if we can stop the firehose, but But yeah, I mean, is reality, all sides, you know, become slow at some point they leave enough to be comfortable. + +Rhian Van Esche +Yeah, I agree. I think I think for me, it's a few things. I think, partly it's kind of, you can start in a small startup, you can start a new project, you can kind of do things the way you want maybe to begin with. But once you get to a certain size, maybe other projects, okay, so maybe you can't just make a choice that doesn't affect the other developers and the other projects. Maybe you're already using a design system. Okay. So it's got it, maybe it's a design system that uses React components, okay. So it kind of has to be react. So you kind of don't have a choice now. So there's business needs that you can't just, you can't simply say, I'm going to migrate this project from I don't know, react to view or react to Angular without a massive cost of technical debt. So you've got to maybe train developers, you've maybe got to hire developers, you've got to actually do the work. I've been through a few migrations, I'm sure we have quite a few of us have, it's a huge amount of work. And you can end up with a really nice end result. But that's a feature that doesn't get shipped, that's maybe two features that don't get shipped. So that's an impact. And then I think, also, for a while the landscape has been very much you mentioned it maybe being overwhelming, Ryan, I think I think it is. And I also think we have kind of become quite entrenched in this single page application react. And that took a while to take hold, and it has taken hold. And people are quite comfortable with that. There's great support and community around all of those things, huge amounts of documentation, loads of places, you can look things up. And some of the newer things maybe are not as well documented, or maybe have not taken hold as much. Because, yeah, so you've got to do that they're not by default included in some of these tools. I think that is starting to change. I see next, Jas is doing some really interesting things server side rendering. But wait until that in the defaults. And so it's easy to migrate. I think people will go, Okay, we could do that. But how am I going to persuade my stakeholders that I can actually make this change in? I know, three sprints or whatever. And yeah, that can be quite difficult as a developer to fight against that kind of the push of the product, which is right, because we are doing this for the user. So we should be shipping them features that are useful. It's like a push and pull. It's quite difficult. Yeah, I + +

+

Stacy London
+agree. i It's, I think the web is such a like forgiving runtime environment, you can really put something together that's very, not like the the output that you get, you know, the resulting HTML can be very poorly formed. And that was on purpose, right? The web was meant to be forgiving on purpose. And it made it very easy for like, lots of people to create for it, which I think is what has become so pervasive, but it's also so forgiving that if you have, you know, say developers that have only learned a framework, but they haven't learned the underlying reasons why, you know, semantic HTML is good for accessibility. And they don't know that they should use a different tag when just a div works. Why would I need to think about? So? I think there's like education stuff, you need to like, have a lot of trading. And so because it's so easy to put something out there that is it performance isn't accessible isn't? There's Yeah, you don't have a compiler saying, Oh, you use the wrong tag there. You can add all that tooling. But again, that takes a lot of time, right? You have to have someone that cares about it enough to add tons of linters or toolings. That's running at build time to catch things. And then even tooling doesn't catch everything, right. Like accessibility, there's like 30% of stuff can be called tooling. But then there's like a whole gamut of stuff that is not cut by tooling. So yeah, it's quite easy to create something bad. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+Which I guess to the point, yeah, it is overwhelming. There's so much out there, which is you know, exactly that. But I think it's a lot to take on and learn one thing that's come up a few times now, and I think we've even talked about this in previous episodes, but I am really curious on all of your thoughts. When do you reach for the single page application versus just going static? What What how do you how does the decision tree come together for something like that? + +Rhian Van Esche +Yeah, I think I would look at that engagement. If we know something about the engagement. Is it like you're using something real time like chat or lots of video or? Yeah, highly interactive pages, then yeah, I think single page application is a good choice because if people are willing to have that initial load time, fine, you know, then after that, it's very, it is very fast. We did it for a reason. You know, it feels like an app it feels nice to use. Also, ideally if they have a good connection speed that really helps because The amount of JavaScript you're likely going to be sending them. And then yeah, make sure you're looking at a tool that maybe you do have the options to switch into something like server side rendering if you need it, that gives you some flexibility and future because the worst thing is to get locked in and then think, oh, no, we have to migrate. Because we didn't have we don't have this. And, yeah, whereas if it's something where you think a user is going to come in, maybe they come in via search, they are going to pop in, read what they want, and you'd like them to stay on your site. But realistically, they might not like a new site, we're going to come in, read your article, and probably leave, then I think, make it as fast as possible, try and start static first and try and add the interactivity on top. Maybe use some kind of some of the new stuff out there. I'm quite excited by Astro, which is a new tool, which basically lets you use like framework components, and then turns off all the JavaScript by default, and lets you add it back in. So you could have a one piece on your page maybe needs to be interactive, like, the navigation or something, and you say, yeah, make that piece interactive, I still get to use all my React components. But it just renders static HTML, which quite often is actually what they were just rendering anyway. And maybe, then that's still a good developer experience, you get to use your design system, which is important, as we've said, and you still kind of get the benefit of the static site, but giving you some options for the future. So I think that's probably what I would consider the engagement level of your user. I'm sure there are other considerations, too. + +

+

Carlos Castro
+Yeah. I wanted to say that exactly. On the engagement part. I feel like also, we've come a long way with the word SBA, feel like, you know, before you even think about it, but when you when you heard the word CA, you thought about this Angular application with like a four megabyte bundle that needed to load initially, and then a bunch of spinners everywhere? Well, the current reality is not like that. Right? You have things like next Jas, which is server side, render the first page and then becomes almost like an SVT an FBA Right? Right, you don't perform full navigations everything is on the client. So I think we've come a long way that you know, as pas now, it's faster but for me, the considerations would be around, you know, if my side is very dynamic, and needs for subluxation, maybe testing and a bunch of like things I'll probably go a little bit more with, with an SBA or like, single page application, because I know I will be calling a bunch of API's on wrong time. Or if I need to deal with like, user's data, like you cannot statically render user data or cache, you know, things like for instance, financial information, that's like No, no, no. So that would make me go to SBA depending also on the need, or wherever the building, right. But in the static sites, for instance, marketing sites, easily static and can be very fast if you do like the whole jam stack. And you put them in the CDN pre render, and like super fast, blogs as well can be maybe static page or static sites. And E commerce as some Ecommerce has not all, but like maybe your small pop up shop, ecommerce that has maybe less than 100 products can make it static and make it super fast. Although when you go deeper into the payment flows and whatnot, you're probably going into a either provider or you gotta do something with an API. What I'm going to say is that right now, I feel like the current landscape has intervened a little bit, the whole SBA dynamic, and the call is static. Having frameworks like niche is which offers you both, you can have certain pages to static, you have certain pages dynamic. So I love it. It's beautiful. Now, you don't have to be like really all static or really all dynamic, you can now intervene and mix the tool. The tooling is allowing you now. All right, + +

+

Jem Young
+Carl, so Alec, you're called on security, like how you can pre render, say like bank account information. That's something as a JavaScript engineers, I don't think we think of often about security at all. Yet, there's so many vulnerabilities out there that are caused by just bad practices, things like that. That's an aside. Here's something I haven't heard mentioned in a long time. And it was so hyped I was part of the hype train, you know, as a hype boy on stage giving talks about this technology. But I haven't heard about in a while. The old remember progressive web apps. Yeah, what what happened with those remember that glorious future that service workers are going to provide with server push and offline caching and the ability to download an app to your phone or your desktop? Is that still a thing? Is it relevant? 2022? If so, why not? Like, what what's the landscape look like for progressive web applications today? + +

+

Carlos Castro
+Versus common? But on that term, I feel like yes, and even if you look for like, what are every year if you look 2021 2022 20 2019 What are the trends for web you will see it every single time progressive, progressive, it's like the ever thing that the thing that will ever come. And for my end, honestly like being working wet for a long time and still have to be a pro Per PWA. I mean, you have things like the manifest. So you know, you get stuff like PWA like but like proper offline first service workers, purple pattern pushing from the server, etc. Yes, never + +Rhian Van Esche +I do think there are some tools that provide this out of the box. Now I feel like Angular maybe does I haven't used it myself recently. But I also I know sites do have them because I sometimes open my application tab and in the dev tools and see, you know, lots of stuff that's been cached there. So I think some of it's done out of the box. But I also think it does depend on your market. So I know, I've read quite a few case studies of some people who serve to products in India or Africa without tech super important because of cost of data. For instance. I have to admit, I, I also have done like our internal talk about it. I got super excited hype hype, but I never built one either. I think maybe partly it's because caching data and deciding on those cache strategies, and the service worker can actually get into into some problems. It's not that straightforward. Although I know there are tools like workbooks that are meant to make it straightforward, but I have also seen talks of horror stories of service workers not getting unregistered and yeah, not up to date on it. So that hopefully that's all a thing of the past. But yeah, it is quite complex deciding on those things. + +

+

Stacy London
+Yeah, on that topic. But yeah, the cashews have been difficult. I think there's, it's really difficult as well for things like going online and offline. And if you have things like WebSockets, and things being pushed down to you now, let's say you go offline, you're missing a particular amount of data, and then doing catch up calls to make sure that the data is remaining fresh, like it's always a lot of complexity there. So I think that's also tough, tougher people to build from scratch. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+So another thing that has come up a few times here, or we, you know, we've mentioned technologies, tools, libraries, frameworks, like that's, that's come up quite a bit. And I think that that's always something that we're keeping, keeping on our radar, like, what's new, what's exciting. And maybe, you know, we're talking about trends in 2022. What are you all excited about that you weren't maybe aware of, or just becoming aware of for 2022, + +Rhian Van Esche +I mentioned earlier, but I asked her is really interesting to me, it's. So it uses this kind of concept of island architecture, where you make pieces of the page interactive, rather than the whole page, still using hydration. So it will hydrate, you start with static HTML, and you hydrate the bits, you need to add the interactivity. But what I really like is you basically can use any framework component at all. And I was a little I was curious about it when it started. But it's got seed funding, it's got huge community that's really active, they keep pushing out updates. So that's interesting to me. I'm also interested in I think it's builder.io, they have something called quick, which is sort of, again, the same concept that you start with static HTML. And then it tries to like do a lot of lazy loading code splitting, to basically delay the Java JavaScript as much as possible. And then they have this concept of resumable applications, which I must admit, I need to go and read again to get into my head. But it's, it sounds quite interesting. And they are also looking into using other framework components into it. I think right now they use a quick specific syntax, and it's Q w ik, just in case you search for it. So yeah, that's what I really like is the idea that we can use stuff we're already used to, to build applications or to build small sites, and then we get the benefit of not having to switch frameworks. And then I guess the final one, for me, I think it's already quite popular, or it's quite well known. But remix is interesting, although it is coming from a full stack perspective. But the progressive, I tried it out a few weeks ago, like the progressive enhancement approach that you are essentially writing, I think it's an abstraction over express on the server side. And then you're doing lots of React, essentially writing React components. But you get you write a form component, but it's actually just an HTML form. So it's combining these basic web API's trying to just progressively enhance them. And you can ship no JavaScript, whereas what you're writing looks like you're writing react, but there's just no JavaScript. And it's, it seems really powerful. I think it is combining kind of a lot of concepts in one. So that one, I wonder how long it will take people to start adopting that because of course, it's kind of got react behind it, which is extremely popular. I'm really gonna keep my eye on that one. + +

+

Carlos Castro
+I'm also very interested on remix. I feel like the thing that they promote about using more of the platform like like forums natively, and on Submit and you know, things are more web platform is something that is actually good, right in terms of performance, performance, and other good UX, but the thing is that I'm excited. Cheers. Yeah, I'm excited about it like A lot of things but like to name a few, I feel like rust in general, like I'm excited about the front end tooling, landscape changing and becoming faster by using rust Rust is a language that I don't know. So now I'm excited. And I want to start learning a little bit more because I feel like it's becoming something very good in mix with the JavaScript ecosystem. Another one is react server components, probably you have mentioned here, but I'm excited because I hate the whole thing about, you know, server side rendering, and then shipping those almost static components into the bundle to start to render again, like, it's like twice the rendering, it's a waste, it's a waste of cycles. So you know, power on the humanity. So I'm hoping that that solves a little bit. Right, like yep, yep. And the tooling vitae. Is it bit or vitae? I don't know, I call it the building tool. By the view guide vitae, and Rome, those two, I feel like Rome has had some bumpiness. But I feel like they're promoting something interesting around, that is a one stop shop for linting. Building everything right? Precure, or formatting. + +

+

Jem Young
+Running a platform team, I get excited about things that are maybe a little different from you. I'm really excited about turbo repo, like the implementation is just so so easy. And it speeds up our builds by a tremendous amount. I'm excited that there's more focus on that space, rather than just pure UI development. I'm perpetually excited by web assembly, I see the innovations coming from that area. I know it's gonna be nice. For most people, I think this is not diminutive of of UI engineers. It's just like, far to Cody. And there's not a lot of UI involved in it. So I think a lot of people be turned off by the complexity of that. But I think the power there of having your own runtime that is near native speed in the browser, in any browser, and can be run on desktop as well is like, really, really powerful. Definitely not PW A's, and I'm not hyping WebAssembly in the same way, I just think it has a lot, a lot of potential there. What what I've noticed is coming out is you you all mentioned remix. And you mentioned next Jas, it's interesting that those are built on React, which is like, are we in another stage of web development, where we have like the tool bases of React Angular view, you know, some of the other big ones. And now we're building tooling on top of that, because that, just from just my observation here, it does seem like we're kind of leaning in that direction. Now. + +

+

Stacy London
+Yeah, I think it's really interesting that we were talking earlier about, like the complexity of building something from scratch, and how, how much knowledge you have to have for like the tooling and getting, you know, server side rendering set up, like it's really hard. And it's very interesting to me that there are entire companies or startups that are getting funding, and dedicating all of their effort and time into making that a lot easier. So that you can focus on like building your features and actually solving your business problem and not spend all your time on the technical complexities of it. So I find that really fascinating. It's very interesting to see them betting on react as well. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+Yeah, I think it's kind of cool, actually, that it's like taking something like React, which has been amazing, like we've all like, as a community have leveraged that many, many times. It's a great framework or library, whatever you want to call it. But it's it's been great. And I like when there's these add ons, because it's people seeing that there's something that more than it's needed, maybe for their own use case. But instead of going and creating a brand new framework, they're just extending it more. And I think that that's really, really great. Because often in the past, we would just be like, now let's just create a brand new framework. And then we'd all have to do our joy of migrating to that latest and greatest framework, which is so expensive. And so I liked this idea of being a little more just building on top and like being able to swap something out if you really need something different, but not having to start from the ground up. And I think that's huge. I'm really happy to see that direction. + +

+

Carlos Castro
+I'm gonna say something that I'm excited that it's gonna be controversial. And if you haven't read it, it's the web three, but the certain concepts and practices Okay, hear me out, Jeff. Jamie's already like Cognoa this guy, okay. I'm not excited about the whole blockchain or forcing the blockchain inside everything or if these are sheep, goats or all that stuff. I'm excited about the whole thing about doubts, decentralized autonomous organizations, and you know, proof of stake and economics and governance. I am excited because like for instance, I have seen how they have this whole thing where you know, they have proposal they both have things and people have ownership, even if they don't belong to a proper like, like company, I feel like they have made this whole tooling. Okay, so it's tooling to make decisions in a way that is more a synchronous, and people have stake on it. Right. I feel like sometimes engineering decisions is hard. And this type of things, you know, help on building, you know, governance and all of that. So I'm excited for that, again, not on the underlying, forcing everything, but on the practice of like, decentralized, autonomous organization ownership over the, there's this thing called coordinate, I believe, it's a tool for tiles. And basically, it has things like incentivize participation, reward contributions, and like voting rights, and, you know, you know, members, etc. So that's the thing, maybe how to remove it from the web three Ponzi scheme and shenanigans, and have the the tooling available for engineering groups and make decisions to rewards to like, say things and saying that you'd like something like a token or whatever that will be cool for. That's what I'm excited about. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+Jem, what's your rebuttal on that? + +

+

Jem Young
+No. rebuttal? I think Carlos covered it. Well, it's a shame that the Ponzi ish nature nature of crypto and NF Ts have become intertwined with the Ayios. I agree, I think the potential is there. However, it's what it's tied to, and when it's associated with that will probably that might hinder its own adoption, which is kind of a shame, because like, you're saying, Carlos, it's a good idea. But it's just like that ecosystem that you have to be involved in to become become part of that. It's just, it turns a lot of people off. So if any lesson that I've learned over my years and kind of one doing doing this podcast for six years, and also just being a web developer watching trends is that it's not technology that shapes kind of the future of how we build its people. It's how we behave. And it's how we hype it up. It's what we get excited about. It doesn't matter how great innovative something is, if people can't get behind it, or the the documentation is poor, or the developer experience is poor. Which is something completely different than I would have thought like, I don't know, 1520 years ago, like doing computers that like, oh, no, it's all about the code. It's about the elegance about the performance. It's about all these other things. But really, it's about like the people get behind it. The companies that sponsor it, it, there's a lot of complications. So yeah, I want to believe in technologies like you're talking about, but I don't know if they'll be adopted just because of kind of the history of how they came about. Right? Yep, + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+that's no additional thoughts on that one. But I like both of your points. We're coming up towards picks. And I thought like, one thing that I often think about is we often have a lot of new engineers to the community. So 2022 might be there, like coming right up, starting out. And we have a lot of listeners that are brand new to the community. What advice would you give someone who's new in 2022? Like, what should they be thinking about? Like we said, there's a lot of things out there that it's overwhelming, there's a lot. + +Rhian Van Esche +For me, it's always focused on your basics, because with the basics, you can do anything. So if you know JavaScript, you're going to be able to understand any framework with a little bit of extra Yeah, and the learning curve. And if you understand performance, I do think that awareness is being built. And I think it can really give you an advantage. Cheers. I think it can really give you an advantage when you're when you're applying for a job, if you can talk, I do quite a lot of hiring and interviewing. And I often ask about that, because it's really interesting to me, both to see kind of take a pulse of what's going on in the community and what developers are knowing about. And it is often something that is, I think, also like accessibility kind of, it's not necessarily prioritized by businesses. So I would say look at your basics, and keep an eye on what's happening with performance in terms of your JavaScript, but also just websites in general. And always remember accessibility because that can really open doors for you. There's quite a few companies, I do not start to see job postings asking for that, which is really nice. And it's we're working for, like I said at the start, we're working for the user, in my opinion, front end developers, as you know, to help the user have a good experience in combination with our UX colleagues and our back end colleagues and all the others and we can make such a difference. So yeah, having that knowledge and awareness you don't have to be an expert just starting to know a little bit about it using your semantic HTML is super powerful. + +

+

Carlos Castro
+I'm completely completely agree. Agree. Focus on the basics, like the pillars of the web, HTML, CSS, and JavaScript will get you in any framework in any library in anything you don't need. To learn all the libraries like I've been working on this, I probably only work in React now I haven't learned view or ng Well, newer Angular iOS, I have the old one backbone. So they're all the frameworks. I mean, the basics can be translated, and you can learn it easily. And another thing is that like, I guess that just stop being on tutorial Hill, like build something, rather than, you know, being on tutorial hill that will let you practice a lot. I know you love to watch the front end master gym courses. But like, if you build something, it's probably better. And humans learned a lot. I watched them by the way, some time ago. So thank you, Jem. But But basically, building something will help you understand the product things better and practice the skill than just being them tutorial fell. But yeah, don't don't overwhelm the technologies. The basics are good accessibility, don't sleep on it. That's a must like performance as well. Here's everything, everything. + +

+

Jem Young
+Thanks for the friend and masters plug garlis I'll just plus three that focus on the basics. It's so tempting to get started with like next Jas or create react app, or the million other tools that are out there that can like just kickstart you into this whole web application, you're like, wow, I built this thing. It's really easy. But when you press people on it, they don't understand how it works underneath the hood. And that really is what it takes to be there between a coder and an engineer is understanding how it all comes together. And I also echo, yeah, tutorials are great. But if you just walk down that paved road, that's the only road you're going to know. And then the minute you switch jobs, and they ask you something I saw on a paved road, you're gonna be like, what? Well, I can't, I can't google this. And that's where you get stuck. So yeah, tutorials are great for getting started. Build your thing, build what makes you happy. Stanford, Twitter, Twitter will make you feel bad. It'll make you feel unproductive like, because all you're seeing is people's highlights from the projects they worked on for months. It can really be dis motivating to see that and you're like, I can't even get my app launched. I think the last one would be take advice from mentors and people that are more senior than you. And I know that's like a little condescending as a senior engineer. But the the points that Carlos and Ron were making about like, accessibility and performance. And things like localization, and testing, like all these things you need to build into a good web application that you need to take into account in the beginning, is something that's really easily missed. And a senior engineer will be like, Hey, we should do all these things. Whereas I remember myself as junior I'm like, Yeah, screw you, I want to build this thing. And then like later down the road, it always bites me. So like, don't do better than I did take advice from senior people, when they're like, Hey, we should slow down and plan this out, because it'll save us time in the long run. Because that's, that's the difference when a senior engineer in a in a junior engineer is that knowledge of having been bitten. And that's, that's hard advice to take. And I know, especially if you're starting out, it's really tempting to be like + +Rhian Van Esche +I have one more tip, which is, when you're building a side project, or you're just learning something, I completely agree build something rather than get stuck in tutorial, hell, but also keep your scope small, learn from businesses that do this, you know, MVP, keep it as an MVP, don't let the scope creep and you think, Oh, it should also do this. And I have to say, I'm personally really bad at doing this and my side project, so I don't follow this advice at all. But it is makes your life so much better. When you can see I've shipped something it actually works, and then iterate and then do the next thing. Yeah, that's a piece of advice. I should take myself. But yeah, do with it, what you will, + +

+

Stacy London
+it's hard to add to this, because you've all given all the advice that I would also give. I think another thing is to always ask why. And you mentioned in the very beginning of the podcast, to really think about your users and, and what they need. And don't start off with like maybe the technical thing, and like, I'm gonna use reacts really popular. I'm super excited about it, and just gonna, I'm just gonna use it. It's more like, but why? Why are you Why do you want to use it? And if you start off with like, yeah, the basics of understanding JavaScript and HTML and CSS, then you can understand, like, I have this problem. And react solves this problem that I have, like, that's why I want to use it. And I think that's really important so that you don't pick just a wild stack of stuff that adds to complexity, but doesn't maybe even solve the problem that for your users and the things you're trying to build. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+You all didn't leave me much. You had way too much. Good advice. I'm going to just add and say we all had to start somewhere, right? Like it was not easy. We've all made tons of mistakes. And that's how you learn don't beat yourself up too bad when some error happens, or you have no idea what this framework is doing or whatever it is. I think a lot of the way I've always learned and I know I can share a lot of that from others on this podcast is that you learn by doing so keep doing it and figure out what what works for you. And you know I'm gonna say something on the Twitter piece. I'm like, Twitter's can be helpful. Just find the positive Twitter side. There are people out there that are very helpful on Twitter. There's really great communities around helping each other. But yes, there is some bad so you take it with a grain of salt. All right, we've covered a lot. This is a really great episode, and let's dive into pics we in each episode, we'd like to share things that we found interesting want to share with all of our listeners, Stacy want to start it off? + +

+

Stacy London
+sure I've got two picks. First one is a song called Bone mics by over mono. Pitchfork described it as familiar traces of UK garage technote to which the brothers add a hint of IDM but it lands in an uncharted territory between all three. The next one is a song called vocoder by floating points. It's one of the heaviest dances tracks that I've ever heard from him. And stereo gum described it as heady, frenetic club music. Good for good for coding and headphones. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+All right, that sounds great. Jem, do you on a chair? Your picks? + +

+

Jem Young
+Yeah, normally I have Valley silicon picks where I pick things that are outrageous and ludicrously expensive only because we all get paid to watch and software engineering. However, I haven't had one in a while, because of inflation. And I really don't know how much things cost anymore. Because, like, you know, inflation, depending on where you are in the world can go up to 30%. So I can't tell it's expensive anymore. So I had to take a pause on that. Until prices settle out. And then I can say like, Hey, that $1,000 pair of boxers is overpriced, but it has Bluetooth. So in, in lieu of my valley, silicon pics, I have a book, which is pretty rare. I don't get a lot of time to read these days. But it's a book by Andres Kluth called Hannibal me, what history's greatest military strategists can teach about successful failure. I've been reading it, it's a kind of a lighter, more entertaining read. Well, it's not super light. But it has an interesting lens of how we view ourselves. And this idea that we have pivotal moments in our lives that have changed who we are and define us. But that's actually not true. Like those are just that's like a human fallacy of like, it's these moments. It's really like everything in between that defines us. And that's much harder to focus on. So we fixate on like these, these bad times good times that we think have changed the course of our lives or careers. But it's really not that and it's like the everyday effort you put in. And it's kind of changed the way I think and the way I manage a little bit. So check that book out. The next one is it's a show on Netflix, this one is going to be very polarizing people. It's called guardians of justice. So it's a superhero show. It's in a mixed media format. So sometimes it's live action. And it's really, really low budget looking live action deliberately. Sometimes it's animated. Sometimes there's claymation. So it tells the story of the superhero in a parallel universe of Earth. In like a very weird format. I'm sure there's like a name for it, and I just don't know it. However, once you get past kind of the the oddity of storytelling, do you realize that by combining all these different mediums, and not just live action, you can tell something really compelling on a on a better budget, and you can do things you can possibly imagine like, why spend a million dollars on this choreographed fight scene when you just animate that, and it tells the story the same. And once you get past that it's a really, really good storyline. I think people just look at it and say like, This is dumb or silly. But to me like you get to the end, and the story is one of the best, more complex superhero stories I've ever seen. And it's outside of that kind of saccharin, Marvel DC Universe kind of area where we're in. I will warn you it is very violent, and is very, is not for children at all. It's one of more violent superhero shows, but that's guardians of justice. It is on Netflix as a Netflix Original. Check it out. And those are my picks. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+Great Rianne. What do you have for our listeners? Yeah, + +Rhian Van Esche +first one is a site called patterns dot Dev. It's from Addy Osmani. And our CO collaborator whose name I can't remember right now. And it's a really great resource for design patterns in JavaScript performance patterns. It covers actually a lot of the topics we kind of mentioned today in that area. It's just this fantastic resource. It's really, I wish this had been around years ago because it summarizes it in such a helpful way. So definitely recommend checking that out. And my other two are a bit more frivolous. I have loved watching for years, a d&d d&d campaign that's Dungeons and Dragons called Critical Role, which it's not new. It's on its third season, but it's one of my favorite ways to relax. I do not have time to play Dungeons Dragons. I haven't played it that much in my life. If I had somehow managed to collect a set of source books, just I don't know how to aspirationally wanting to play. And there's something really nice about watching a group of friends play together, having a lot of fun, it's very wholesome. It is a little violent at times, they are, you know, killing things in their d&d campaign. But super fun. I love it. It's kind of a nice, comforting thing to do at the end of the week for me. And then finally, big shout out to my home assistant right now, because my daughter is starting to talk. She really likes hearing animal sounds. And I can now say, I wouldn't say that I want to trigger everyone's home assistant, but I can say what sound does a cat make? And then she will ask for it like again, and again and again. And it's great because she keeps her entertained. And I'm so happy that technology lets us do this. Now we can just ask what a cat sounds like again and again and again. To keep it total happy. So that's saving my life + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+right now. That's great. And soon she'll be calling it out herself. She'll learn how to call that Google or Amazon assistant, whatever it is, and they'll get responses on their own, which is even better. She + +Rhian Van Esche +is almost that it's terrifying. I think it's gonna start answering casting. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+That's awesome. Carlos, what pics do you have for us? + +

+

Carlos Castro
+I was gonna say that on the system. My daughter already talks to it and ask for it most songs as well. And it's so cool that he can understand Spanish English and any language now. Well, before he was English only and I love it that she's asking like how does a dog do in Spanish and answers back in Spanish, I love it. So for my books, the first one is like a double pig in the sense that like, I love to get like to read articles about what's new in front and center. So two websites that I almost always reaches a Smashing Magazine, you probably have seen it excellent articles and guides and everything. And of course, CSS tricks. That's that's another one that I feel like it's very good to keep up to date and check the things new CSS practices or like new frameworks, etc. So recommend those two for the second is a show at Netflix. It's kind of weird and didn't get a lot of maybe announcement but I really liked it. It's called the house. It's a stop animation. Motion Animation or something like that is one of those weird shows with like, you know, activation any talks about three stories saying it's kinda like dark, greedy, and you know, very, very interesting. I watched it like I was, I loved it. And I keep recommending to everyone like a watch that show is different. It's kind of weird, but it's good. So we recommend that one the house at Netflix. And the last one is a YouTube channel called the pursuit of wonder. It's a channel about like philosophy and like videos about things that are like maybe mental philosophy questions and existentialism, I love things, anything about essentialism, I always think about like, what's the meaning of life? What are we here, things like that. So this channel is about that. And I definitely recommend it if you want to get into that whole train of thought + +

+

Jem Young
+I watched the house and I guess you can call me a club. I didn't understand it. I watched all the way through and I kept waiting for like some greater meaning and I think I just missed it like what they were going for. I liked the style. But yeah, it just didn't click with me and I wanted to like it. So maybe sometime you can explain like the messages to me, because yeah, I think it could be good. All right, + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+and I have two picks actually. No, no one's tech related was like both not tech related, but yes, they are. One is so one is a clothing brand that and athleisure type clothing that I feel like a lot of people within my team are or have talked about and so I went and purchased some and very comfy So the brand is called V Ori clothing super comfy and like I've bought in a few things like T shirt pants and like some nice kind of sweatpants super comfortable, highly recommend them a little on the pricey side, but quality is good. So check them out. And then I've got a new light for one of my desks at home that I found really great. It's called the Elgato key light air. It's just perfect for getting like really nice lighting when you're on calls. It's not super bright, but you get nice lighting for yourself and it's not super distracting. You can even control like how bright or the tone that you want like the coloring and everything. And you can control it right from your computer, which is kind of nice so you can turn it on or off. I've really enjoyed it. It's been a great addition to my desk. I want to thank Korean and Carlos thank You so much for joining the episode. This is an awesome discussion. I feel like I said earlier at the top of the episode like we can be talking about this regularly there's so many things are constantly changing. So I'm happy to with you all to join us and talk about it what web development is like in 2022? Where can people get in touch with you? + +

+

Carlos Castro
+Yeah. My Twitter handle is Carlos cast + +Rhian Van Esche +Yeah, same for me, I'm reinvests on Twitter and also LinkedIn. I do have a personal site, but it hasn't been updated in so long, so I'm gonna leave that but I think it's reinvests.com even. But yeah, Twitter is the best bet. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+Awesome. Well, and if you want to find front end happy hour, you can find us on Twitter at @frontendhh. Any last words + +

+

Stacy London
+something to cheers to so keep it performant Cheers. + +

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Building in 2022 and tasting the beverage trends

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Published June 5, 2022

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With this ever-changing landscape of technologies, we spend this episode talking with Rhian van Esch and Carlos Castro about the current trends of web development in 2022.

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Guests

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Picks

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Panel

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Episode transcript

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Ryan Burgess
+Welcome to a brand new episode of the front end happier podcast. In this episode, we are joined by Rhian and Carlos to talk with us about the current landscape of web development in 2022. I know in the past, we've definitely covered various years of like where web development is, and it quite frankly, changes so fast that we could probably do this every other month. So it's great to kind of follow up on what's happening in 2022. Rand and Carlos, can you give brief introductions of who you are, what you do and what your favorite Happy Hour beverage is? + +Rhian Van Esche +Cool, I can start. My name is Rhian Van Esche. I'm a software engineer at St. Cloud, which is a company in the Netherlands that handles connections between online store merchants and Postal Services, helping people ship and do returns and things like that. I'm originally from the UK not from the Netherlands, as you might be able to tell and I have a live here with my my husband and my daughter who's almost two which is what keeps me busy these days. My favorite beverage is what I have right here, which is a good old fashioned gin and tonic color. Choice. + +

+

Carlos Castro
+Nice. Nice. Thank you. So my name is Carlos Castro I work at Netflix as a senior software engineer on the web member platform. I'm originally from Tijuana Mexico. And my favorite Happy Hour drink is just normal beer. But I always try new beers like RT Chanel or anything IPAs, etc. Do + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+you have a favorite type like is it IPA? Or is it lizard, a certain type that stands out for you? + +

+

Carlos Castro
+lagger? I'll go with like, or like blonde. Yeah, yeah, + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+right on. All right. Well, let's also give introduction of today's panelists. Stacey want to kick it off? + +

+

Stacy London
+Sure. I'm Stacy London. I'm a senior front end engineer on Trello, + +

+

Jem Young
+Jem Young, engineering manager at + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+Netflix, and I'm Ryan Burgess. I'm an engineering manager at Netflix as well. In each episode, the front end happier podcasts. We like to choose a keyword that if it's mentioned in on the episode, we will all take a drink. And what did we decide today's keyword is performed on your farm? + +

+

Carlos Castro
+What if I say perf? Does that count? + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+It's a good question. + +

+

Jem Young
+I think so I think historically. Thanks. So concatenation. Yeah, + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+we do. Can we count that? Or we allow it to pass without a drink? + +

+

Jem Young
+No, no? Should you be counted have to drink? Well, in this case, Rianne has to drink? I think that's how we've done it. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+All right. So perf performance, whatever it is, yes, we will all take a drink. All right, well, let's kick off the topic. First question is, what considerations do you have to make when building a web application in 2022? Because there is a lot out there. When you start a brand new project or web application? What do you think about what do you go do first? + +Rhian Van Esche +Yeah, I can kick off, I think, for me, it's the user who is your user. So as a front end, I always consider like, we're kind of the interface between the back end user, we get to make an enormous amount of technological decisions that affect them. So yeah, when I'm thinking about the user, like, where do they live? What's the infrastructure like? And also, what are we building for them, because that can change the kind of user that you have. So if you're building some kind of massive software as a service, you know, you're gonna get deep engagement, I know something like a JIRA, or a century, or people are doing deep work on it, that's going to be a little bit different kind of users. And if you're building a marketing site, or blog, site or news page, and also key for me is what kind of devices are they on? Is it fast, you know, ideal situation, you've got your MacBook, you're on a wired connection, super fast, everything is amazing. Or are you like, a nice sitting in the metro with your phone out, waiting for the connection to come back when you're in the station, so you can look up where the restaurant is, or something, which I think you know, we've all been there. And then related to that user is also for me, who are your direct competitors, because you've got to be as good if not better than them. So yeah, do some research there, find out how fast their site is, and make sure you're faster. Or that you're considering that when you start to make your tech choices. So for me, it's like, work out all that user stuff first, and then start to make technical decisions, if you have that latitude if you're starting a new project, because obviously we're not some of us have to work on existing things. And that's a bit more difficult than starting something new. That's where I would go first. + +

+

Carlos Castro
+I love that in like the terms of thinking thinking first of the user, it just made me thought of like from my from my self is what are we trying to achieve? That's the first one like, if this is going to be needed offline is going to be more static. So we need more performance. So you know we need to generate or more dynamic I also since you know I I'm a sucker for front end infrastructure, I naturally start thinking about like build systems, technologies linters, of course, taking into account what the user needs, but always thinking and also, are we going to need SEO? So maybe some server side rendering needs to be in there. All payments, unit stripe integration, PayPal integration. Then another thing is, is this the scale of the application? Is it going to be international? So we need to start thinking about internationalization localization? And of course, accessibility? I mean, always, always think of that. And data acts like what technology we're using, do we have an API already, like rest? Or should be, I don't know, graph, QL, etc? There's honestly like, there's tons of considerations. I don't even know where to start. And hosting. Yeah, + +Rhian Van Esche +I think especially for internationalization, that can be a big, like, you really have to build that in from the start. And you have to choose a tool that will let you do that, because trying to add that in later is a headache. Yeah, and I think also, within the tech choices that you make based on who your user is like, it's like, easy to default to, okay, single page application, single page application, it's like almost the industry default, like you see it. All the hiring posts, you see, it's like five years of framework experience, or whatever. Boot Camps are optimizing, learn, react in six weeks, etc. And I get that because that's exactly what the market is asking for. And I really, I actually love frameworks. I love the developer experience of it I love, especially in big teams, when you can share components and things that's really powerful. Things that are reusable. Some of these tools are fantastic. But if you and your initial user research phase, you were like, Okay, well, I'm building something that has almost no interactivity, and I need it to be super fast, because my competitors are super fast. And it's not going to have a lot of deep, you know, work that I could have shallow engagement, I guess, is what I'm trying to say, then the single page application is maybe not what you should reach for, because, yeah, you're gonna just end up having to refactor all that out. And I know, there's server side rendering. I know there's code splitting. But I do feel that like now in 2022, we're starting to see technologies that are letting us the awareness is really being built that we don't have to just start with create react app, or a new view app or a new Angular app. So that's really exciting to me, this year, I'm really seeing it explode, you know, lots of different groups working on different things that + +

+

Stacy London
+I was thinking to, you mentioned, components, and the idea that sparked the idea of like, design systems, and maybe like, depending on like the context of where you're building this app, like you're at a company that has a design system already, then you take that into consideration as well, like, does that design system have the kinds of things you need? And you know, what, what like, what kind of thing? Are you building? What? Do you need to build some stuff from scratch? Or can you take advantage of things that exist? If you have a design system? Or do you need to build a design system? Are you like, the first, you know that there's gonna be multiple apps eventually, like you're building some sort of suite of something, and you know that, that's going to be important. So maybe you plan some time out for that as well. + +

+

Jem Young
+I liked the answer. So far. Rihanna, I like your answer on user research and understanding the use case. And Carlos and Stacy, you're talking about, like, the tooling and what else you need? I think that's all great and lovely. I respectfully, I think the truth is how people decide to build web apps today, as they build with what they're most comfortable with. Like, in an ideal world, we would do all these things like, Hmm, do we need a single page application for this? Probably not, we can build some static HTML, or let's use some easy builder. But the reality is developers and engineers are engineers, and they want the challenge. So what I've seen is like people are aware of like, Yeah, we should probably look into what we should build, like the kind of technology. But what happens is we go with whoever is the loudest person in the room, or whoever is most comfortable with whatever, or I don't know, like some it biases board sorts of developer experience in the user experience. And that's something I've seen pretty consistently. I hope that's changing with like, the availability of tools, but I don't know, I'm a little cynical these days. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+Yeah, I'm gonna just say very similar to Jem, too. It's, you know, it's like, I love the approach that you both mentioned, actually, and Stacey, sorry, all three of you, is that, you know, starting out from that user experience, thinking about what's best for the user accessibility design systems, I would say maybe fits in more for like the developer experience, but even for the user experience of like, how do you have consistency and thinking about that, but yeah, oftentimes, I feel like we tend to lean towards like, oh, I want to try this new framework or like this is the latest and greatest or we spend so much time With build systems, right, like, Oh, I've got to have NPM installed all of it. And like, we spent so much time doing that, or it has to be a, you know, single page application, when in fact, really like, maybe a static page is great. Or we try and over, engineer everything. And we could have probably started MVP, getting something out the door, and just getting that minimal viable product to your users to start to iterate on. I think that, to me, is something that I continue to reflect on where I'm like, How can we start to learn faster, versus trying to build the ideal state and in basically in a box, because you haven't really got something out to your users? So I think like, all of what you're saying is where we should be starting. And I want to echo that, I think is all valid, valid points. + +

+

Carlos Castro
+Yeah, I wouldn't say that. It's definitely aspirational. Like when we think about what to consider, and like, trying to best practices, but like equity jam, like, you end up doing what either your company's doing already, and using the current infrastructure and the current libraries and current design system, because then who's gonna maintain that, right? Like, you're not a single person startup, or it's a company, it's a team. So you got to, you know, do the tools that a lot of people know. So it's maintainable, it's scalable, and you know, other people can pitch in when when you need it. So that's why I keep saying it's aspirational. But reality is a different one. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+So design systems have has come up a few times, right? We just have mentioned a couple times now. I'm very curious to hear everyone's thoughts on design systems, not that like, bad or good. But like, I personally, I think they're very great. Like, I think there's a lot of value to them. And companies are doing it better and better. But it is such a huge undertaking. And so I'm maybe curious of like, how do you even start that? Or how do you make it successful? Are there tools or things that are making it easier in 2022? + +

+

Carlos Castro
+I can speak a little bit about that, because I was paid for leading engineering design systems team. So I love that work. And I love that role. And basically, how it started was that there was a need for consistency across the site. Like we had multiple teams, multiple applications, they started becoming consistent colors, sizes, on typography, you know, etc, etc. So the need for a standardization of common components. What's that, right? Like? How do we declare buttons? How do we declare colors even. So, the like the way right now, I feel one of the things that a lot of people start using, or the face of the design system, of course, is the sign and you know, figma files and designers coming up with these patterns. And also engineering helping you identify these patterns, but then extracting the values that represent the design system, let's say as a generic way, what what is called like design tokens, right? Like the most atomic unit of a color, all the colors on the brand, all the sizes on the brand, whatever the typography is, you express this into a, let's say, agnostic format, like a JSON or a jumble, or a hammer, like a text field. And then you use a transformer, like there's there things like styled style, dictionary, believe and feel, and other like tools that basically grab that JSON and transform that into technology, specific formats, variables, CSS variables, less variables, or Sass, or even swift classes. So in paper, what we did was a design system for cross platform. So basically, we'll explore the tokens for swift classes, Android, XML, and CSS less variables in JavaScript variables. And then from that we build libraries representing the design using the token, so changes could be propagated just a few things, but it's a difficult undertake, like, it was a lot of work and a lot of convincing the teams because there's also the whole, you know, friction between feature work and consistency work, and Ryan is like, and then you know, we were like, Hey, can we please adopt the scientists them? And they're like, oh, but we need to do all these features, like there's no time. So that's also the painful part of making a design system, a scalable Arts Sciences company. + +Rhian Van Esche +Yeah, we're just putting together a design since we've been doing it for a while, actually, and absolutely echo what Carlos said, it's about we got to a point where well, I can remember when we had 41 shades of blue, which are very similar, you know, which have somehow got scattered all across the application. And he's got, oh, no, how did we get to this point? And so at that point, yeah, you can do some cleanup and so on. But then, as you scale up with more teams, which is exactly what happened with us, it all starts to creep back. So at that point, you've got to go okay, we've got it in force this somehow and that's where the design system starts begging, everyone has to use the design system. And that was incredibly helpful. But as you say, it's a massive amount of work because it's almost never done. And you can go back and iterate and say, access it, you know, it's got to be accessible as well. That's not necessarily a straightforward thing to do, depending on how complex your components are. And yeah, for us as well, the battle between feature work, and I guess design debt or tech debt, however you want to look at it, it's a struggle. And making people see the value of this consistency is super important. Because if a user has a consistent user experience, I think it's one of those little things that it's hard to quantify. But it has a real impact on what they feel when they browse through your application or your web page. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+I love that you called out the multiple shades of blue, Carlson jam can probably attest to this at the on the Netflix web application. Like for many years, it was like we joke that we had like, especially like 50 Shades of Grey was probably coming out at that time. But we had like 50 Shades of Grey, it was ridiculous. There was so many different in you're like, why like what is this been used for. And there was no rhyme or reason it was just people putting in trying to get the hex value, and it's just a little bit off. And so you throw that in there. And maybe it's a variable, maybe it's not, it's just was, like, inconsistent. And so I think that, yes, design systems make that more consistent, it is hard to see the value at first, it's a it is an investment, I agree that makes the user experience more consistent. But also, I think over time, the velocity of your engineering should be a lot faster to you're not having to reinvent the wheel, you can grab a component that's done, and throw it in, and then iterate on the pieces that are brand new. Also, if you have to change something, you can update that in one spot. And it updates everywhere keeps things consistent, but also, like you're not having to go and do that multiple places. + +

+

Stacy London
+Yeah, I was gonna say you can also just you don't even have to call it a design system, you can just start by like doing good, like, programmatic practices, like, you know, when you create, put some components and a component folder and call your, you know, button component. And it makes it really easy for people to know where something is and use it. And then, you know, put put some variables for all your colors, but you don't have to like, go, you know, if at the beginning, if you're small, and you're just starting out, maybe you just you don't have to call it a design system. You can just call it like, good, good. Code, hygiene and practices like making variables and sharing things. + +Rhian Van Esche +Yeah, I totally agree, Stacy, it doesn't have to prove this, like, you know, you've got a whole storybook and you've got a whole, you know, separate NPM package, which you can go down that road, and that's fine. But yeah, it can be just CSS variables. And that's the nice thing about the new CSS custom properties, you know, they're easy to inspect on the browser. That's one thing I really like to use. And I'm interested to hear you talk about that with regards to design tokens, Carlos, because I think that's really powerful that you start with a figma file. And then you end up with something that the developer could inspect in the browser, without having to have gone through necessarily some massive process of building out a design system, the tools are really helping us out these days. And also, just a point about, yeah, what people like to do that it makes you it's fast to iterate when you have a design system. 100% agree, because especially what I hear from developers I work with is, you know, these are smart people, they want to work on fun problems. They don't want to build a form for the 20th time, they want to just grab the components they need, put them together and work on the interesting part and get it out to users quickly and hear how it's actually performing. That's what developers are asking for these days. So we should let them do that. By giving them the tools to do that. + +

+

Jem Young
+I think what, to me, what I'm getting from from this conversation is the tools and technology exists to solve a lot of the problems. We're talking about internationalization, accessibility, performance, better user experience via design systems, chairs, chairs. So all the tooling exists. But we don't make use of these things necessarily. So why is that? Like we we have it still solutions, like we all know, I can look up how to do all this stuff. But there's still sites that are inaccessible, there's still sites that are slow. There's still sites that should have been a static site instead of Spa. So like, why are we still in the state that we're in, even though the solutions exist? + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+Do you all think it's just like, Is it maybe a bit overwhelming? + +

+

Carlos Castro
+Probably. I wanted to say that. I think at some point, you start lean and nimble, right, like, very good side. And as new future features come in, and product changes, and I feel like also the way of software development practices we have now it's more volatile than let's say 15 years ago. So we now have more need to change and with change comes editions, bigger bundle sizes, you know, maybe accessibility, I guess, how can we enforce or prevent or be I guess is that from the beginning or maybe we didn't talk about it when we say considerations, but one consideration could be it Starting, when you start that project, maybe put together some performance budgets and accessibility, you know, reporting, you know, as you start, so as you keep going, you don't regress. That's I guess I'm trying to see if we can stop the firehose, but But yeah, I mean, is reality, all sides, you know, become slow at some point they leave enough to be comfortable. + +Rhian Van Esche +Yeah, I agree. I think I think for me, it's a few things. I think, partly it's kind of, you can start in a small startup, you can start a new project, you can kind of do things the way you want maybe to begin with. But once you get to a certain size, maybe other projects, okay, so maybe you can't just make a choice that doesn't affect the other developers and the other projects. Maybe you're already using a design system. Okay. So it's got it, maybe it's a design system that uses React components, okay. So it kind of has to be react. So you kind of don't have a choice now. So there's business needs that you can't just, you can't simply say, I'm going to migrate this project from I don't know, react to view or react to Angular without a massive cost of technical debt. So you've got to maybe train developers, you've maybe got to hire developers, you've got to actually do the work. I've been through a few migrations, I'm sure we have quite a few of us have, it's a huge amount of work. And you can end up with a really nice end result. But that's a feature that doesn't get shipped, that's maybe two features that don't get shipped. So that's an impact. And then I think, also, for a while the landscape has been very much you mentioned it maybe being overwhelming, Ryan, I think I think it is. And I also think we have kind of become quite entrenched in this single page application react. And that took a while to take hold, and it has taken hold. And people are quite comfortable with that. There's great support and community around all of those things, huge amounts of documentation, loads of places, you can look things up. And some of the newer things maybe are not as well documented, or maybe have not taken hold as much. Because, yeah, so you've got to do that they're not by default included in some of these tools. I think that is starting to change. I see next, Jas is doing some really interesting things server side rendering. But wait until that in the defaults. And so it's easy to migrate. I think people will go, Okay, we could do that. But how am I going to persuade my stakeholders that I can actually make this change in? I know, three sprints or whatever. And yeah, that can be quite difficult as a developer to fight against that kind of the push of the product, which is right, because we are doing this for the user. So we should be shipping them features that are useful. It's like a push and pull. It's quite difficult. Yeah, I + +

+

Stacy London
+agree. i It's, I think the web is such a like forgiving runtime environment, you can really put something together that's very, not like the the output that you get, you know, the resulting HTML can be very poorly formed. And that was on purpose, right? The web was meant to be forgiving on purpose. And it made it very easy for like, lots of people to create for it, which I think is what has become so pervasive, but it's also so forgiving that if you have, you know, say developers that have only learned a framework, but they haven't learned the underlying reasons why, you know, semantic HTML is good for accessibility. And they don't know that they should use a different tag when just a div works. Why would I need to think about? So? I think there's like education stuff, you need to like, have a lot of trading. And so because it's so easy to put something out there that is it performance isn't accessible isn't? There's Yeah, you don't have a compiler saying, Oh, you use the wrong tag there. You can add all that tooling. But again, that takes a lot of time, right? You have to have someone that cares about it enough to add tons of linters or toolings. That's running at build time to catch things. And then even tooling doesn't catch everything, right. Like accessibility, there's like 30% of stuff can be called tooling. But then there's like a whole gamut of stuff that is not cut by tooling. So yeah, it's quite easy to create something bad. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+Which I guess to the point, yeah, it is overwhelming. There's so much out there, which is you know, exactly that. But I think it's a lot to take on and learn one thing that's come up a few times now, and I think we've even talked about this in previous episodes, but I am really curious on all of your thoughts. When do you reach for the single page application versus just going static? What What how do you how does the decision tree come together for something like that? + +Rhian Van Esche +Yeah, I think I would look at that engagement. If we know something about the engagement. Is it like you're using something real time like chat or lots of video or? Yeah, highly interactive pages, then yeah, I think single page application is a good choice because if people are willing to have that initial load time, fine, you know, then after that, it's very, it is very fast. We did it for a reason. You know, it feels like an app it feels nice to use. Also, ideally if they have a good connection speed that really helps because The amount of JavaScript you're likely going to be sending them. And then yeah, make sure you're looking at a tool that maybe you do have the options to switch into something like server side rendering if you need it, that gives you some flexibility and future because the worst thing is to get locked in and then think, oh, no, we have to migrate. Because we didn't have we don't have this. And, yeah, whereas if it's something where you think a user is going to come in, maybe they come in via search, they are going to pop in, read what they want, and you'd like them to stay on your site. But realistically, they might not like a new site, we're going to come in, read your article, and probably leave, then I think, make it as fast as possible, try and start static first and try and add the interactivity on top. Maybe use some kind of some of the new stuff out there. I'm quite excited by Astro, which is a new tool, which basically lets you use like framework components, and then turns off all the JavaScript by default, and lets you add it back in. So you could have a one piece on your page maybe needs to be interactive, like, the navigation or something, and you say, yeah, make that piece interactive, I still get to use all my React components. But it just renders static HTML, which quite often is actually what they were just rendering anyway. And maybe, then that's still a good developer experience, you get to use your design system, which is important, as we've said, and you still kind of get the benefit of the static site, but giving you some options for the future. So I think that's probably what I would consider the engagement level of your user. I'm sure there are other considerations, too. + +

+

Carlos Castro
+Yeah. I wanted to say that exactly. On the engagement part. I feel like also, we've come a long way with the word SBA, feel like, you know, before you even think about it, but when you when you heard the word CA, you thought about this Angular application with like a four megabyte bundle that needed to load initially, and then a bunch of spinners everywhere? Well, the current reality is not like that. Right? You have things like next Jas, which is server side, render the first page and then becomes almost like an SVT an FBA Right? Right, you don't perform full navigations everything is on the client. So I think we've come a long way that you know, as pas now, it's faster but for me, the considerations would be around, you know, if my side is very dynamic, and needs for subluxation, maybe testing and a bunch of like things I'll probably go a little bit more with, with an SBA or like, single page application, because I know I will be calling a bunch of API's on wrong time. Or if I need to deal with like, user's data, like you cannot statically render user data or cache, you know, things like for instance, financial information, that's like No, no, no. So that would make me go to SBA depending also on the need, or wherever the building, right. But in the static sites, for instance, marketing sites, easily static and can be very fast if you do like the whole jam stack. And you put them in the CDN pre render, and like super fast, blogs as well can be maybe static page or static sites. And E commerce as some Ecommerce has not all, but like maybe your small pop up shop, ecommerce that has maybe less than 100 products can make it static and make it super fast. Although when you go deeper into the payment flows and whatnot, you're probably going into a either provider or you gotta do something with an API. What I'm going to say is that right now, I feel like the current landscape has intervened a little bit, the whole SBA dynamic, and the call is static. Having frameworks like niche is which offers you both, you can have certain pages to static, you have certain pages dynamic. So I love it. It's beautiful. Now, you don't have to be like really all static or really all dynamic, you can now intervene and mix the tool. The tooling is allowing you now. All right, + +

+

Jem Young
+Carl, so Alec, you're called on security, like how you can pre render, say like bank account information. That's something as a JavaScript engineers, I don't think we think of often about security at all. Yet, there's so many vulnerabilities out there that are caused by just bad practices, things like that. That's an aside. Here's something I haven't heard mentioned in a long time. And it was so hyped I was part of the hype train, you know, as a hype boy on stage giving talks about this technology. But I haven't heard about in a while. The old remember progressive web apps. Yeah, what what happened with those remember that glorious future that service workers are going to provide with server push and offline caching and the ability to download an app to your phone or your desktop? Is that still a thing? Is it relevant? 2022? If so, why not? Like, what what's the landscape look like for progressive web applications today? + +

+

Carlos Castro
+Versus common? But on that term, I feel like yes, and even if you look for like, what are every year if you look 2021 2022 20 2019 What are the trends for web you will see it every single time progressive, progressive, it's like the ever thing that the thing that will ever come. And for my end, honestly like being working wet for a long time and still have to be a pro Per PWA. I mean, you have things like the manifest. So you know, you get stuff like PWA like but like proper offline first service workers, purple pattern pushing from the server, etc. Yes, never + +Rhian Van Esche +I do think there are some tools that provide this out of the box. Now I feel like Angular maybe does I haven't used it myself recently. But I also I know sites do have them because I sometimes open my application tab and in the dev tools and see, you know, lots of stuff that's been cached there. So I think some of it's done out of the box. But I also think it does depend on your market. So I know, I've read quite a few case studies of some people who serve to products in India or Africa without tech super important because of cost of data. For instance. I have to admit, I, I also have done like our internal talk about it. I got super excited hype hype, but I never built one either. I think maybe partly it's because caching data and deciding on those cache strategies, and the service worker can actually get into into some problems. It's not that straightforward. Although I know there are tools like workbooks that are meant to make it straightforward, but I have also seen talks of horror stories of service workers not getting unregistered and yeah, not up to date on it. So that hopefully that's all a thing of the past. But yeah, it is quite complex deciding on those things. + +

+

Stacy London
+Yeah, on that topic. But yeah, the cashews have been difficult. I think there's, it's really difficult as well for things like going online and offline. And if you have things like WebSockets, and things being pushed down to you now, let's say you go offline, you're missing a particular amount of data, and then doing catch up calls to make sure that the data is remaining fresh, like it's always a lot of complexity there. So I think that's also tough, tougher people to build from scratch. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+So another thing that has come up a few times here, or we, you know, we've mentioned technologies, tools, libraries, frameworks, like that's, that's come up quite a bit. And I think that that's always something that we're keeping, keeping on our radar, like, what's new, what's exciting. And maybe, you know, we're talking about trends in 2022. What are you all excited about that you weren't maybe aware of, or just becoming aware of for 2022, + +Rhian Van Esche +I mentioned earlier, but I asked her is really interesting to me, it's. So it uses this kind of concept of island architecture, where you make pieces of the page interactive, rather than the whole page, still using hydration. So it will hydrate, you start with static HTML, and you hydrate the bits, you need to add the interactivity. But what I really like is you basically can use any framework component at all. And I was a little I was curious about it when it started. But it's got seed funding, it's got huge community that's really active, they keep pushing out updates. So that's interesting to me. I'm also interested in I think it's builder.io, they have something called quick, which is sort of, again, the same concept that you start with static HTML. And then it tries to like do a lot of lazy loading code splitting, to basically delay the Java JavaScript as much as possible. And then they have this concept of resumable applications, which I must admit, I need to go and read again to get into my head. But it's, it sounds quite interesting. And they are also looking into using other framework components into it. I think right now they use a quick specific syntax, and it's Q w ik, just in case you search for it. So yeah, that's what I really like is the idea that we can use stuff we're already used to, to build applications or to build small sites, and then we get the benefit of not having to switch frameworks. And then I guess the final one, for me, I think it's already quite popular, or it's quite well known. But remix is interesting, although it is coming from a full stack perspective. But the progressive, I tried it out a few weeks ago, like the progressive enhancement approach that you are essentially writing, I think it's an abstraction over express on the server side. And then you're doing lots of React, essentially writing React components. But you get you write a form component, but it's actually just an HTML form. So it's combining these basic web API's trying to just progressively enhance them. And you can ship no JavaScript, whereas what you're writing looks like you're writing react, but there's just no JavaScript. And it's, it seems really powerful. I think it is combining kind of a lot of concepts in one. So that one, I wonder how long it will take people to start adopting that because of course, it's kind of got react behind it, which is extremely popular. I'm really gonna keep my eye on that one. + +

+

Carlos Castro
+I'm also very interested on remix. I feel like the thing that they promote about using more of the platform like like forums natively, and on Submit and you know, things are more web platform is something that is actually good, right in terms of performance, performance, and other good UX, but the thing is that I'm excited. Cheers. Yeah, I'm excited about it like A lot of things but like to name a few, I feel like rust in general, like I'm excited about the front end tooling, landscape changing and becoming faster by using rust Rust is a language that I don't know. So now I'm excited. And I want to start learning a little bit more because I feel like it's becoming something very good in mix with the JavaScript ecosystem. Another one is react server components, probably you have mentioned here, but I'm excited because I hate the whole thing about, you know, server side rendering, and then shipping those almost static components into the bundle to start to render again, like, it's like twice the rendering, it's a waste, it's a waste of cycles. So you know, power on the humanity. So I'm hoping that that solves a little bit. Right, like yep, yep. And the tooling vitae. Is it bit or vitae? I don't know, I call it the building tool. By the view guide vitae, and Rome, those two, I feel like Rome has had some bumpiness. But I feel like they're promoting something interesting around, that is a one stop shop for linting. Building everything right? Precure, or formatting. + +

+

Jem Young
+Running a platform team, I get excited about things that are maybe a little different from you. I'm really excited about turbo repo, like the implementation is just so so easy. And it speeds up our builds by a tremendous amount. I'm excited that there's more focus on that space, rather than just pure UI development. I'm perpetually excited by web assembly, I see the innovations coming from that area. I know it's gonna be nice. For most people, I think this is not diminutive of of UI engineers. It's just like, far to Cody. And there's not a lot of UI involved in it. So I think a lot of people be turned off by the complexity of that. But I think the power there of having your own runtime that is near native speed in the browser, in any browser, and can be run on desktop as well is like, really, really powerful. Definitely not PW A's, and I'm not hyping WebAssembly in the same way, I just think it has a lot, a lot of potential there. What what I've noticed is coming out is you you all mentioned remix. And you mentioned next Jas, it's interesting that those are built on React, which is like, are we in another stage of web development, where we have like the tool bases of React Angular view, you know, some of the other big ones. And now we're building tooling on top of that, because that, just from just my observation here, it does seem like we're kind of leaning in that direction. Now. + +

+

Stacy London
+Yeah, I think it's really interesting that we were talking earlier about, like the complexity of building something from scratch, and how, how much knowledge you have to have for like the tooling and getting, you know, server side rendering set up, like it's really hard. And it's very interesting to me that there are entire companies or startups that are getting funding, and dedicating all of their effort and time into making that a lot easier. So that you can focus on like building your features and actually solving your business problem and not spend all your time on the technical complexities of it. So I find that really fascinating. It's very interesting to see them betting on react as well. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+Yeah, I think it's kind of cool, actually, that it's like taking something like React, which has been amazing, like we've all like, as a community have leveraged that many, many times. It's a great framework or library, whatever you want to call it. But it's it's been great. And I like when there's these add ons, because it's people seeing that there's something that more than it's needed, maybe for their own use case. But instead of going and creating a brand new framework, they're just extending it more. And I think that that's really, really great. Because often in the past, we would just be like, now let's just create a brand new framework. And then we'd all have to do our joy of migrating to that latest and greatest framework, which is so expensive. And so I liked this idea of being a little more just building on top and like being able to swap something out if you really need something different, but not having to start from the ground up. And I think that's huge. I'm really happy to see that direction. + +

+

Carlos Castro
+I'm gonna say something that I'm excited that it's gonna be controversial. And if you haven't read it, it's the web three, but the certain concepts and practices Okay, hear me out, Jeff. Jamie's already like Cognoa this guy, okay. I'm not excited about the whole blockchain or forcing the blockchain inside everything or if these are sheep, goats or all that stuff. I'm excited about the whole thing about doubts, decentralized autonomous organizations, and you know, proof of stake and economics and governance. I am excited because like for instance, I have seen how they have this whole thing where you know, they have proposal they both have things and people have ownership, even if they don't belong to a proper like, like company, I feel like they have made this whole tooling. Okay, so it's tooling to make decisions in a way that is more a synchronous, and people have stake on it. Right. I feel like sometimes engineering decisions is hard. And this type of things, you know, help on building, you know, governance and all of that. So I'm excited for that, again, not on the underlying, forcing everything, but on the practice of like, decentralized, autonomous organization ownership over the, there's this thing called coordinate, I believe, it's a tool for tiles. And basically, it has things like incentivize participation, reward contributions, and like voting rights, and, you know, you know, members, etc. So that's the thing, maybe how to remove it from the web three Ponzi scheme and shenanigans, and have the the tooling available for engineering groups and make decisions to rewards to like, say things and saying that you'd like something like a token or whatever that will be cool for. That's what I'm excited about. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+Jem, what's your rebuttal on that? + +

+

Jem Young
+No. rebuttal? I think Carlos covered it. Well, it's a shame that the Ponzi ish nature nature of crypto and NF Ts have become intertwined with the Ayios. I agree, I think the potential is there. However, it's what it's tied to, and when it's associated with that will probably that might hinder its own adoption, which is kind of a shame, because like, you're saying, Carlos, it's a good idea. But it's just like that ecosystem that you have to be involved in to become become part of that. It's just, it turns a lot of people off. So if any lesson that I've learned over my years and kind of one doing doing this podcast for six years, and also just being a web developer watching trends is that it's not technology that shapes kind of the future of how we build its people. It's how we behave. And it's how we hype it up. It's what we get excited about. It doesn't matter how great innovative something is, if people can't get behind it, or the the documentation is poor, or the developer experience is poor. Which is something completely different than I would have thought like, I don't know, 1520 years ago, like doing computers that like, oh, no, it's all about the code. It's about the elegance about the performance. It's about all these other things. But really, it's about like the people get behind it. The companies that sponsor it, it, there's a lot of complications. So yeah, I want to believe in technologies like you're talking about, but I don't know if they'll be adopted just because of kind of the history of how they came about. Right? Yep, + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+that's no additional thoughts on that one. But I like both of your points. We're coming up towards picks. And I thought like, one thing that I often think about is we often have a lot of new engineers to the community. So 2022 might be there, like coming right up, starting out. And we have a lot of listeners that are brand new to the community. What advice would you give someone who's new in 2022? Like, what should they be thinking about? Like we said, there's a lot of things out there that it's overwhelming, there's a lot. + +Rhian Van Esche +For me, it's always focused on your basics, because with the basics, you can do anything. So if you know JavaScript, you're going to be able to understand any framework with a little bit of extra Yeah, and the learning curve. And if you understand performance, I do think that awareness is being built. And I think it can really give you an advantage. Cheers. I think it can really give you an advantage when you're when you're applying for a job, if you can talk, I do quite a lot of hiring and interviewing. And I often ask about that, because it's really interesting to me, both to see kind of take a pulse of what's going on in the community and what developers are knowing about. And it is often something that is, I think, also like accessibility kind of, it's not necessarily prioritized by businesses. So I would say look at your basics, and keep an eye on what's happening with performance in terms of your JavaScript, but also just websites in general. And always remember accessibility because that can really open doors for you. There's quite a few companies, I do not start to see job postings asking for that, which is really nice. And it's we're working for, like I said at the start, we're working for the user, in my opinion, front end developers, as you know, to help the user have a good experience in combination with our UX colleagues and our back end colleagues and all the others and we can make such a difference. So yeah, having that knowledge and awareness you don't have to be an expert just starting to know a little bit about it using your semantic HTML is super powerful. + +

+

Carlos Castro
+I'm completely completely agree. Agree. Focus on the basics, like the pillars of the web, HTML, CSS, and JavaScript will get you in any framework in any library in anything you don't need. To learn all the libraries like I've been working on this, I probably only work in React now I haven't learned view or ng Well, newer Angular iOS, I have the old one backbone. So they're all the frameworks. I mean, the basics can be translated, and you can learn it easily. And another thing is that like, I guess that just stop being on tutorial Hill, like build something, rather than, you know, being on tutorial hill that will let you practice a lot. I know you love to watch the front end master gym courses. But like, if you build something, it's probably better. And humans learned a lot. I watched them by the way, some time ago. So thank you, Jem. But But basically, building something will help you understand the product things better and practice the skill than just being them tutorial fell. But yeah, don't don't overwhelm the technologies. The basics are good accessibility, don't sleep on it. That's a must like performance as well. Here's everything, everything. + +

+

Jem Young
+Thanks for the friend and masters plug garlis I'll just plus three that focus on the basics. It's so tempting to get started with like next Jas or create react app, or the million other tools that are out there that can like just kickstart you into this whole web application, you're like, wow, I built this thing. It's really easy. But when you press people on it, they don't understand how it works underneath the hood. And that really is what it takes to be there between a coder and an engineer is understanding how it all comes together. And I also echo, yeah, tutorials are great. But if you just walk down that paved road, that's the only road you're going to know. And then the minute you switch jobs, and they ask you something I saw on a paved road, you're gonna be like, what? Well, I can't, I can't google this. And that's where you get stuck. So yeah, tutorials are great for getting started. Build your thing, build what makes you happy. Stanford, Twitter, Twitter will make you feel bad. It'll make you feel unproductive like, because all you're seeing is people's highlights from the projects they worked on for months. It can really be dis motivating to see that and you're like, I can't even get my app launched. I think the last one would be take advice from mentors and people that are more senior than you. And I know that's like a little condescending as a senior engineer. But the the points that Carlos and Ron were making about like, accessibility and performance. And things like localization, and testing, like all these things you need to build into a good web application that you need to take into account in the beginning, is something that's really easily missed. And a senior engineer will be like, Hey, we should do all these things. Whereas I remember myself as junior I'm like, Yeah, screw you, I want to build this thing. And then like later down the road, it always bites me. So like, don't do better than I did take advice from senior people, when they're like, Hey, we should slow down and plan this out, because it'll save us time in the long run. Because that's, that's the difference when a senior engineer in a in a junior engineer is that knowledge of having been bitten. And that's, that's hard advice to take. And I know, especially if you're starting out, it's really tempting to be like + +Rhian Van Esche +I have one more tip, which is, when you're building a side project, or you're just learning something, I completely agree build something rather than get stuck in tutorial, hell, but also keep your scope small, learn from businesses that do this, you know, MVP, keep it as an MVP, don't let the scope creep and you think, Oh, it should also do this. And I have to say, I'm personally really bad at doing this and my side project, so I don't follow this advice at all. But it is makes your life so much better. When you can see I've shipped something it actually works, and then iterate and then do the next thing. Yeah, that's a piece of advice. I should take myself. But yeah, do with it, what you will, + +

+

Stacy London
+it's hard to add to this, because you've all given all the advice that I would also give. I think another thing is to always ask why. And you mentioned in the very beginning of the podcast, to really think about your users and, and what they need. And don't start off with like maybe the technical thing, and like, I'm gonna use reacts really popular. I'm super excited about it, and just gonna, I'm just gonna use it. It's more like, but why? Why are you Why do you want to use it? And if you start off with like, yeah, the basics of understanding JavaScript and HTML and CSS, then you can understand, like, I have this problem. And react solves this problem that I have, like, that's why I want to use it. And I think that's really important so that you don't pick just a wild stack of stuff that adds to complexity, but doesn't maybe even solve the problem that for your users and the things you're trying to build. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+You all didn't leave me much. You had way too much. Good advice. I'm going to just add and say we all had to start somewhere, right? Like it was not easy. We've all made tons of mistakes. And that's how you learn don't beat yourself up too bad when some error happens, or you have no idea what this framework is doing or whatever it is. I think a lot of the way I've always learned and I know I can share a lot of that from others on this podcast is that you learn by doing so keep doing it and figure out what what works for you. And you know I'm gonna say something on the Twitter piece. I'm like, Twitter's can be helpful. Just find the positive Twitter side. There are people out there that are very helpful on Twitter. There's really great communities around helping each other. But yes, there is some bad so you take it with a grain of salt. All right, we've covered a lot. This is a really great episode, and let's dive into pics we in each episode, we'd like to share things that we found interesting want to share with all of our listeners, Stacy want to start it off? + +

+

Stacy London
+sure I've got two picks. First one is a song called Bone mics by over mono. Pitchfork described it as familiar traces of UK garage technote to which the brothers add a hint of IDM but it lands in an uncharted territory between all three. The next one is a song called vocoder by floating points. It's one of the heaviest dances tracks that I've ever heard from him. And stereo gum described it as heady, frenetic club music. Good for good for coding and headphones. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+All right, that sounds great. Jem, do you on a chair? Your picks? + +

+

Jem Young
+Yeah, normally I have Valley silicon picks where I pick things that are outrageous and ludicrously expensive only because we all get paid to watch and software engineering. However, I haven't had one in a while, because of inflation. And I really don't know how much things cost anymore. Because, like, you know, inflation, depending on where you are in the world can go up to 30%. So I can't tell it's expensive anymore. So I had to take a pause on that. Until prices settle out. And then I can say like, Hey, that $1,000 pair of boxers is overpriced, but it has Bluetooth. So in, in lieu of my valley, silicon pics, I have a book, which is pretty rare. I don't get a lot of time to read these days. But it's a book by Andres Kluth called Hannibal me, what history's greatest military strategists can teach about successful failure. I've been reading it, it's a kind of a lighter, more entertaining read. Well, it's not super light. But it has an interesting lens of how we view ourselves. And this idea that we have pivotal moments in our lives that have changed who we are and define us. But that's actually not true. Like those are just that's like a human fallacy of like, it's these moments. It's really like everything in between that defines us. And that's much harder to focus on. So we fixate on like these, these bad times good times that we think have changed the course of our lives or careers. But it's really not that and it's like the everyday effort you put in. And it's kind of changed the way I think and the way I manage a little bit. So check that book out. The next one is it's a show on Netflix, this one is going to be very polarizing people. It's called guardians of justice. So it's a superhero show. It's in a mixed media format. So sometimes it's live action. And it's really, really low budget looking live action deliberately. Sometimes it's animated. Sometimes there's claymation. So it tells the story of the superhero in a parallel universe of Earth. In like a very weird format. I'm sure there's like a name for it, and I just don't know it. However, once you get past kind of the the oddity of storytelling, do you realize that by combining all these different mediums, and not just live action, you can tell something really compelling on a on a better budget, and you can do things you can possibly imagine like, why spend a million dollars on this choreographed fight scene when you just animate that, and it tells the story the same. And once you get past that it's a really, really good storyline. I think people just look at it and say like, This is dumb or silly. But to me like you get to the end, and the story is one of the best, more complex superhero stories I've ever seen. And it's outside of that kind of saccharin, Marvel DC Universe kind of area where we're in. I will warn you it is very violent, and is very, is not for children at all. It's one of more violent superhero shows, but that's guardians of justice. It is on Netflix as a Netflix Original. Check it out. And those are my picks. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+Great Rianne. What do you have for our listeners? Yeah, + +Rhian Van Esche +first one is a site called patterns dot Dev. It's from Addy Osmani. And our CO collaborator whose name I can't remember right now. And it's a really great resource for design patterns in JavaScript performance patterns. It covers actually a lot of the topics we kind of mentioned today in that area. It's just this fantastic resource. It's really, I wish this had been around years ago because it summarizes it in such a helpful way. So definitely recommend checking that out. And my other two are a bit more frivolous. I have loved watching for years, a d&d d&d campaign that's Dungeons and Dragons called Critical Role, which it's not new. It's on its third season, but it's one of my favorite ways to relax. I do not have time to play Dungeons Dragons. I haven't played it that much in my life. If I had somehow managed to collect a set of source books, just I don't know how to aspirationally wanting to play. And there's something really nice about watching a group of friends play together, having a lot of fun, it's very wholesome. It is a little violent at times, they are, you know, killing things in their d&d campaign. But super fun. I love it. It's kind of a nice, comforting thing to do at the end of the week for me. And then finally, big shout out to my home assistant right now, because my daughter is starting to talk. She really likes hearing animal sounds. And I can now say, I wouldn't say that I want to trigger everyone's home assistant, but I can say what sound does a cat make? And then she will ask for it like again, and again and again. And it's great because she keeps her entertained. And I'm so happy that technology lets us do this. Now we can just ask what a cat sounds like again and again and again. To keep it total happy. So that's saving my life + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+right now. That's great. And soon she'll be calling it out herself. She'll learn how to call that Google or Amazon assistant, whatever it is, and they'll get responses on their own, which is even better. She + +Rhian Van Esche +is almost that it's terrifying. I think it's gonna start answering casting. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+That's awesome. Carlos, what pics do you have for us? + +

+

Carlos Castro
+I was gonna say that on the system. My daughter already talks to it and ask for it most songs as well. And it's so cool that he can understand Spanish English and any language now. Well, before he was English only and I love it that she's asking like how does a dog do in Spanish and answers back in Spanish, I love it. So for my books, the first one is like a double pig in the sense that like, I love to get like to read articles about what's new in front and center. So two websites that I almost always reaches a Smashing Magazine, you probably have seen it excellent articles and guides and everything. And of course, CSS tricks. That's that's another one that I feel like it's very good to keep up to date and check the things new CSS practices or like new frameworks, etc. So recommend those two for the second is a show at Netflix. It's kind of weird and didn't get a lot of maybe announcement but I really liked it. It's called the house. It's a stop animation. Motion Animation or something like that is one of those weird shows with like, you know, activation any talks about three stories saying it's kinda like dark, greedy, and you know, very, very interesting. I watched it like I was, I loved it. And I keep recommending to everyone like a watch that show is different. It's kind of weird, but it's good. So we recommend that one the house at Netflix. And the last one is a YouTube channel called the pursuit of wonder. It's a channel about like philosophy and like videos about things that are like maybe mental philosophy questions and existentialism, I love things, anything about essentialism, I always think about like, what's the meaning of life? What are we here, things like that. So this channel is about that. And I definitely recommend it if you want to get into that whole train of thought + +

+

Jem Young
+I watched the house and I guess you can call me a club. I didn't understand it. I watched all the way through and I kept waiting for like some greater meaning and I think I just missed it like what they were going for. I liked the style. But yeah, it just didn't click with me and I wanted to like it. So maybe sometime you can explain like the messages to me, because yeah, I think it could be good. All right, + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+and I have two picks actually. No, no one's tech related was like both not tech related, but yes, they are. One is so one is a clothing brand that and athleisure type clothing that I feel like a lot of people within my team are or have talked about and so I went and purchased some and very comfy So the brand is called V Ori clothing super comfy and like I've bought in a few things like T shirt pants and like some nice kind of sweatpants super comfortable, highly recommend them a little on the pricey side, but quality is good. So check them out. And then I've got a new light for one of my desks at home that I found really great. It's called the Elgato key light air. It's just perfect for getting like really nice lighting when you're on calls. It's not super bright, but you get nice lighting for yourself and it's not super distracting. You can even control like how bright or the tone that you want like the coloring and everything. And you can control it right from your computer, which is kind of nice so you can turn it on or off. I've really enjoyed it. It's been a great addition to my desk. I want to thank Korean and Carlos thank You so much for joining the episode. This is an awesome discussion. I feel like I said earlier at the top of the episode like we can be talking about this regularly there's so many things are constantly changing. So I'm happy to with you all to join us and talk about it what web development is like in 2022? Where can people get in touch with you? + +

+

Carlos Castro
+Yeah. My Twitter handle is Carlos cast + +Rhian Van Esche +Yeah, same for me, I'm reinvests on Twitter and also LinkedIn. I do have a personal site, but it hasn't been updated in so long, so I'm gonna leave that but I think it's reinvests.com even. But yeah, Twitter is the best bet. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+Awesome. Well, and if you want to find front end happy hour, you can find us on Twitter at @frontendhh. Any last words + +

+

Stacy London
+something to cheers to so keep it performant Cheers. + +

+
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Made with by Front End Happy Hour
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Sidebar interview with Shirley Wu

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Published June 19, 2022

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Our sidebar interview specials interview our panelists individually to learn more about their backgrounds and careers. In this episode, we interview Shirley Wu, to learn more about her background and career.

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Panel

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Episode transcript

+ +

Ryan Burgess
+All right, welcome to a brand new episode of the front end, happy hour. As you've heard in probably some of our episodes, this year, we've done a spin sprinkling in some interviews with each of our panelists that we've called our sidebar interview specials. I don't know what you want to call it, but we're going deep on each of our panelists on their backgrounds or careers, just to really answer some of the questions that people have asked us throughout the years. So I get the opportunity now to interview surely, surely, whoo. Thank you for giving us the opportunity to maybe go deep on your background. Oh, my God, + + +

Shirley Wu
+thank you for taking the time and so excited to talk to you about myself. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+I mean, it's an easy subject, right? Like, you know, the answers. It's like one of those ones to be like, I got this + +

+

Shirley Wu
+do I don't know. I feel like it's like harder to talk about yourself. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+It really honestly is. Let's start off easy. Surely. Where'd you grow up? + +

+

Shirley Wu
+Oh, yeah. Okay, so this is actually a little bit of a long answer. I was born in the Philippines. But my parents are both Chinese. So we went back to China when I was two, then we moved to Japan when I was four. And then we moved to SoCal when I was 10. And then I've been in the US since Southern California. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+Yeah, I guess we should clarify that. That's good. Yeah, we're where we're in Southern California. Where did you move to? + +

+

Shirley Wu
+I it was right outside of LA and Ventura County. Like 10 miles from the beach. It was really nice. But I did grow to hate the beach, actually. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+You hate the beach? How come? + +

+

Shirley Wu
+It was a really stupid like middle school mistake I made where okay, this is gonna sound really spoil. But for our middle school every year, like the kids that like I guessed, were well behaved, quote, unquote, I can't remember that. But there was like a point system. And so if you like got more than like, a certain number of points, then your end of the year reward was like a day at the beach. And then like, they would get in and out cater to you. Um, and, and in seventh grade, I went, and it was an overcast day. So I was like, I don't use sunscreen. And I got a second degree burn on my back. And I've kind of disliked it since very stupid reason. Because it's not the beach is full. But + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+no, but that huge of a sunburn is not a good feeling. So yeah, I mean, I get it. Like, it's just like, I won't even bother at the beach. I don't even have to risk it again. + +

+

Shirley Wu
+That's fair. And that was when I learned that UV rays go through clouds. I didn't + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+know, mistakes, and you learn from them. Right? Like, that's when you're 12, I guess make them when you're tall. So I take it to from that little story to that you were like one of the good kids because you were awarded for going to the beach. + +

+

Shirley Wu
+Yeah, I, I cannot deny it. I mean, I'm, I guess, Asian American child. And then as an Asian American child, I was expected to behave a certain way. And I like to say that I have my teenage rebellion in my mid 20s. And that's when I refuse to listen to my parents because believe it or not, Asian parents, or at least Chinese parents have an opinion on what you do. Well pass, like after you graduate from college. And that was when I was like, Nope, I'm financially independent. I will. You can give me advice, but I am not obligated to listen to them anymore. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+That's fair. I did that a lot sooner, but took you a bit longer I guess. + +

+

Shirley Wu
+I when I was a child, I was like, I'm not gonna bite the hand that feeds me + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+this you know, you're just a lot smarter than me. Surely that's all like, what brought you like you and your family? Like this is not a small move. We're talking countries. What brought your family to move to Southern California? + +

+

Shirley Wu
+Oh, yeah. So all of the moves that we had. Were because my dad got new jobs and new opportunities in those different places. Yeah, yeah. All of them were because of my dad's job. And they were and I guess it's because he's like such a very specific research scientist that like he got very specific jobs and like different countries. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+Awesome. Oh, that makes sense. And were it was it an exciting moment to be like, Oh, I'm moving to this weird country or + +

+

Shirley Wu
+Oh, man. Okay, so this is where I speak about a little bit like unpleasant things, which is, so I grew up in Japan, in my life kindergarten to elementary like fourth grade. And I grew up in the Japanese countryside as the only Chinese kid and then elementary school full of, you know, Japanese kids and then naive knees, where there was really big discrimination against anybody that wasn't Japanese, or white, honestly. So I got bullied a lot, I got called names I got, I got, I don't know, got into fights, I got ignored all the like little kid bullying tactics. And so I actually was really relieved when my parents were like, we're gonna, we're gonna move to America. And I'm like, thank goodness, like I was kind of like, I was kind of sad about it. Because there were aspects of living in Japan that I loved. I had, like, started to make some friends. But it was also kind of really tumultuous. And for actually, I'm extremely grateful to my parents for having made the decision that they did. Apparently, one of the other places that were that they were considering, like, my dad had gotten a job offer six months prior to the, like the US job offer, he had gotten one from Germany, like a German company. So if like the US company hadn't, I guess reached out around the same time, I will be speaking German. I mean, I'd be, that would be really cool. But like, I really appreciate the decisions that they made for us, like for their kids, because they were like, oh, it'd be better for us to move to the US because there's better education opportunities for like, and I'm just really grateful that they made that decision. Because I can imagine that if I had grown up in Japan, I'd be a completely different person. I think I would be like very much lacking self confidence because of the way I was bullied. Because I think when I was a kid, I thought it was all my fault. Like, I thought I just was like, not likable. And then I came to America, and like people didn't bully me. And I was like, oh, so it wasn't all because of me. And so that was really helpful for my self confidence. And then also, I think I wouldn't have gotten into tech, if I was in Japan still, because I think I think there's an even stronger social pressure for girls to not be into the math and sciences and like to be, you know, that, like, our goals, when we grow up should be like a happy marriage and like being a good housewife. And so, yeah, because of that one decision my parents made, I am who I am now, today. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+I mean, we're all thankful for it too. Because like I've ever met, then I've never been to Germany, so that, you know, yeah, number of happen. + +

+

Shirley Wu
+Yeah, I am so happy about like, all of the people I've gotten to meet, like, through the conferences that we've been to, and just like, Yeah, I'm very grateful. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+I always love that, too. So you're growing up in Southern California? What are some things that you like to do as a child like other than I mean, not go to the beach, we know that, but + +

+

Shirley Wu
+that's very nerdy. And, like, still very nerdy. But I think some of the I was thinking about this about like, my childhood because I listened to your episode, and I loved and I loved how you were talking about, like, how much you loved R and like, like, skateboarding and then getting into graffiti and how there's always been like, a very creative side to you. And I was kind of thinking about my childhood and how like, one of the things that were really fun and good about Japan was like, I wrote so much manga, like Japanese comics. And there used to be this culture. I don't even I don't know if there's still this culture. But there was like a culture called like, Tata Yomi, which means to like, go to a bookstore, and then just read, like, stand there and read comics because back then in the 90s, like people wouldn't the book shopkeepers wouldn't yell at you. If you just took a book off the shelf and start we started reading it because you're sampling it, but like, you can sample all the way to the end and never buy anything. So my friends and I used to like go to bookstores, like on Sunday mornings, and just like quote unquote, sample manga for like the entire day. And I think because of that, when I got to America, I really, really miss As to like, you know, being able to read the manga watching the anime, the Japanese dramas. And I was in like a very non Asian suburb right outside of LA like with like, like, still even now there's like, no good boba shops within like a 15 minute driving. Yes, I know, even now and 2022. So I like had no access to like manga, right. And so I actually turned to the internet and like looking back now, my first eye Yes, like, brush with code, not really code, but like kind of that side is like with IRC because because I figured out that I could download all of the original raw Japanese, like manga, and like, and I can download all of them through IRC. So like, I started going into those chat rooms, which meant I started getting introduced to people that were scan leading. So I actually helped scan like I helped to translate from like Chinese and Japanese into English for a while. And then I saw that they were making websites to host their scanlations. And that's how I got into like Photoshop and like, making websites and like, I learned HTML and CSS. And I, like I remember freshman, sophomore year, like my joy was like, during the school day, I would dream up what my new website design would be, I think I went through like 12 or 13 Different designer, like different designs, like it would be like v 12. And then I would come home. And I will like, make it in Photoshop and like lay it out with HTML. And I never got into JavaScript because it was too intimidating. Like I knew nobody, like none of my family members were like computer scientists or software engineers. And our town was like a biopharmaceutical town. So like, nobody around me were software engineers, I didn't know anything about code. So JavaScript was extremely intimidating to me. But I always thought it was so cool to be able to make something on the internet. And that's, that's how, like when I got into and our high school didn't even have computer science classes. But when I got to high school, or when I got to college, I was like, I want to take a CS class. And that's how it was all manga actually at one point. I know, right? I won't point I actually, quote unquote, managed other people to help me upload like scanlations onto my manga hosting website is a nerdiest? + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+No, it's like, I mean, you learn so many skill sets off of something that you love. And it's like, you're learning all these things to enable yourself to do this one thing. And then while doing that, you're building up the skill set and being like, Wait, actually, like doing some of these things like Photoshop and building a site? Now I have one follow up question. Where do you host these sites? Like I think that can tell a lot about the time and everything to oh my gosh, were you like publishing? I always think back to like, my early times of HTML was like the geo cities Angel Fire, what was the thing at a time? + +

+

Shirley Wu
+Oh, my God, I I forgotten what domains I used to have. I, I think probably geo cities, I don't remember what my website was hosted on. It was like one of those free hosting services where you don't get your own domain name. But I do remember that because it was free, we don't get any storage, right? So then I'll end the like, like, the scanlations are images that are like, I mean, now it's very small files, but back then they were like very big files. So we will upload them to photo bucket. And so I used to have and the the people that I managed were like the ones that had different photo bucket accounts, because photo bucket has Yeah, a limitation like a like a storage limitation. So like, you know, I had people that were had multiple photo bucket accounts, and they were like, responsible for uploading different chapters of manga. Um, and then I remember at that quote, unquote peak of my website, I was getting called enough traffic that I could apply to this like special like domain. It was like a special web hosting platform dedicated to only manga and anime websites. And if you could prove that you had enough content and traffic, then they gave you your own donate domain name and a certain amount of file storage so that you don't have to rely on photo bucket. That was that was the peak of my career. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+So cool. I mean, super rewarding to at that point where you're like, Yeah, this is like I've made it. I've done something pretty impressive that people are noticing. So that's really cool. + +

+

Shirley Wu
+Yeah. And then I had to shut it down because I had started taking AP classes. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+I love it. So this is like leading you right into college, then at that time or university? + +

+

Shirley Wu
+No, no, this was this was like my freshman and sophomore year, and then junior year, I was taking like four or five AP classes. So it's like, I can't handle this. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+Fair enough. So So built up the love for computers coding. And then like you said, your high school did not offer any computer science. So you went to university and decided computer science? + +

+

Shirley Wu
+Nope, no. Um, so this is another weird part about my, like, weird logic, which is, um, my parents are very math and science oriented. So I'm from a young age, like our family activity was that we would sit down and do like math problems together. So like, by the time that I graduated high school, I have basically taken like, all available math and science classes like that my high school had. And by that point, I was like, I don't want to do this anymore. Like, I'm like math and science doubt, I'm gonna do the complete opposite. And for a 17 year old brain, the complete opposite of math and science was business. + +I went and declared undergrad business, and I thought I was gonna go into investment banking. And into finance, which I think what I didn't realize at the time is, like, I love I liked finance the most because it had to do with numbers, because I actually really liked math. And then, but I, like took CS classes on the side. Um, I took one my freshman year, I loved it, but I was not good at the tests. I'm a really shitty test taker. And so I think that was my first C in my life. Um, and the thing with our business major at our school was like, really weird where you got into the University. But to get into the business program, you have to apply your sophomore year to get in your junior year, like, you can't even just declare the major, like you had to get accepted to be able to declare it. And like, like, 50% of the application was GPA. So I was like, Yes, I'm not taking any more CS classes, because I'm so shitty at it. Um, so I didn't take another CS class until my junior year and when my junior year after I had gotten into the business program, I was like, Well, I'm already here. I guess I can screw up my GPA now. So and I loved my CS class. So I started taking more CS classes. And the more CS classes I took, I was like, wait, I frickin love this. Like, I love this more than the finance classes or business classes I'm taking. And I had, like two investment banking internships. And by the end of my summer, junior year, I was like, I don't think I can do as investment banking. I don't think it's like, my personality. I don't think I can work like 100 hours a week and be happy about it. So my senior year, I went into my senior year of being like, Yeah, I'm gonna try and get a software job. I don't think this is realistic. But I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna I'm gonna try and double NCS. And when I told all of my friends, they were like, Dude, we knew this was gonna happen when you first said that you weren't going into business. We were like, what? We knew you would come back around to like something mathy. And so yeah, senior year, I just took like so many computer science classes. And then it was actually really hard because I had a lot of insecurity, like a lot of insecurity. Because I was going up against like, our school CS program is like one of the top in the nation and then like, I was going up against those people that had like, taken CS classes all four years and done all of their internships out like different like I Google and Facebook, and I was like, why would anyone hire me like for full time? But I think what I did I knew back then was that for a lot of good hiring managers, the passion and excitement is what's important. And I had a whole story about why I wanted to get into tech, which is that I realized that business wasn't for me. And I wanted so desperately to get a software engineering job because I loved coding. And that really resonated and that's how I was able to get my first full time software job out of college and, and I went to a big data company called Splunk. Doing a + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+Friday. Yeah, we know a lot about Splunk. That's awesome. So that was your first job out of school, like done, you're in it? Where is Splunk? Located? Like, because I'm following like, you were in the south, like South California. Now you're moving up north? Oh, + +

+

Shirley Wu
+yeah. Yeah, sorry. Um, I went to university at Berkeley or in it was I went to Berkeley. So I was already in the bay. And so it was really easy for me to just like, cross the bridge to SF. So Splunk is headquartered in SF. To this day, one of my favorite friend happy hour episodes is the one about impostor syndrome. And I know we did it again. But that resonated so much with me, because I know, I think like that whole experience of, you know, landing a full time job after only three semesters of CS co coursework with no internship experience, I thought I had somehow just, like, faked my way. And like, I couldn't believe that anybody wanted me, like my manager is to this day, one of my favorite managers I've ever had, and he was so good. He's like, No, you made it here for a reason. Like, you're, you're really good at what you do. But at that time, I was like, so blinded by my own imposter syndrome. I couldn't believe him. And yeah. And so I just, I just want to say like, to anyone that feels impostor syndrome, like, I, I get it. And I think the only way that I got out of it was just like, I think that imposter syndrome, like it gave me like a amount of desperation where I just wanted to learn everything I like. That's how I got out of it the second time or the first time around. And then there was like, waves of imposter syndrome later in my career, too, that I think we've talked about. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+Yeah, I think it's one of those things that doesn't fully go away. You have moments of it, and but I also like, the positive side of it, too, is that you're like, it forced me to really learn more and just feel like, yeah, I still need to, like keep pushing myself, which, I mean, sometimes that's a positive side out of it, too, because imposter syndrome can be pretty crippling. So it's almost like good that it was a big driver. Yeah, + +

+

Shirley Wu
+it was very crippling. While it was like suffocating while I had it. But I am grateful that I think I can now recognize that it was also unhealthy the amount of like, overworking myself I was doing. But I also do appreciate the work that my past self put in. So too, because that's, I am where I am now, because of the all the imposter syndrome and desperation and the work that my past self has put in. Yeah, it's hard. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+It's not easy, but I love it. Thank you. So first job Splunk. How long did you stay at Splunk for I + +

+

Shirley Wu
+was there for a year and a half. And I was there at a very interesting time. So I actually signed that week after Splunk had gone public. So I actually thought that I like I actually thought I had lost my offer. Because like the recruiter was non responsive for like two weeks after they gave me the verbal offer. And like and then later on, I found out it was because they were busy going public and celebrating. And so I think I got my offer, like the same day or the second day after they went public. But it was such an interesting time because I think we went from like, I joined when there was about 400 people. And then a year and a half later when I left, right, not even a year and a half. It was like, yeah, when I left it was like 12 or 1300 people. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+Wow. That's small. That's pretty quick growth. Yeah. And + +

+

Shirley Wu
+I think that um, that's one of the big reasons why I left because I think they were just having so much growing pains that I just wasn't getting work like for six months. I wasn't put on any major projects because they kept on being like we need to figure out the roadmap and like things kept on getting scrapped, and like they were tried to put me on something and then that we get scrapped for something else. And then. And so like they had me on that waiting pattern to like, try to put me on something that was more stable. But because of all the growing pains, it was just, I think one of the key moments I still remember is like, Oh, my mom loved my Splunk shop. And she's like, What do you mean, you don't do anything, you still get a nice salary and all those stock options, your stocks are doing like so well, like, and I'm like, Mother, I am 23. If there's any time in my life for me to be like fighting, and like hustling, and working hard it is now. So moment, when I knew that I needed to leave was like, there was one day when I was working from home. And literally, I got one bug in the morning, I fixed in 30 minutes and one bug in the afternoon. I fixed in 30 minutes. And then I'm marathon and finished a whole Japanese drama series. And I was like, it's nice to be getting paid to do this. But also, I think this is better when I'm like 15 not 23 + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+I hear you. It's like there's those moments where you're like I have I don't need to be comfortable right now. It's like also yes, for us. And like, I feel like engineering. It's just like, you want to keep learning. And if you're just like not being challenged enough, it can get really tall. And I mean, I personally couldn't sit there and just have nothing. I've been in those jobs. So I I totally get it. + +

+

Shirley Wu
+Yeah, I totally agree. I think a lot of us that are so like love front end and are so involved in it is because of how fast paced it is. And like the learning is, I really do think the fast paced learning is what keeps it exciting, even like a decade later. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+Yeah, I couldn't agree more. So you decided, you know, I gotta get more challenges. Try something differently. What what did you do next after Splunk? + +

+

Shirley Wu
+Yeah, yeah. So one of the really great things about being that Splunk was that it was a big data company. And I was on one of the front end teams, and oh my god, I can't wax poetics about how good my manager was because he likes shielded us from all of the politics. But another thing that he encouraged was he was like, Hey, that was around when d3 had just come out. So it was like a year after d3 had just started in my like, first week or so he was like, Hey, you're not on any projects yet. And there's this like, new thing called d3 we're interested in, um, do you want to give it a try? And I was like, Okay. And so he kind of just like helped me, like, so it like kind of helped me get into d3. And I ended up loving it because I'm one of the things I guess I didn't mention earlier is that I actually also loved art, like drawing and painting growing up. And so I actually like, did watercolors since I was like four or five never like, always, like very amateur. But I did do art classes for all four years of high school and entered competitions. And I loved painting. And I loved drawing, but I gave it up all cold turkey and university because I was like, I would just spend like all day drawing or a painting, and not really, and I do my homework out like the last two hours. And I feel like I could only get by on that because it was high school. Yeah. But then when I got to university, I was like, I definitely cannot sustain that. So I just like quit drawing did join a graphic design club in college. But I think I did explain that in my interviews. So my manager was like, you want to give this d3 thing like this data visualization thing I try. And I loved it because it was it was math, and it was code and it was art. And so once I fell into that, I knew that for my next job, I wanted to do something like data visualization related. And that's how I landed up a startup that was a an enterprise security company called Illumio. And I was there for two and a half years. And it was like a really great experience because I gained so much technical, like technical skill from that. Um, if my first job at Splunk gave me like confidence with d3, then my second one gave me a lot of confidence about like, how to build a product or how to help build a product from the ground up like from scratch. And that's where I really did a lot of d3 with like first with Backbone, then with React and thinking about software architecture, but also like kind of like into our team lations like, how do you convince others about your idea? I learned so much from a technical aspect at that job. And I think that's what set me up really well, from at least a technical perspective, when I decided to quit and start freelancing. That's kind of my like, next step. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+That's really cool, too. I love that like, going from Splunk, like, super data, like oriented, right? Obviously, like Splunk is, that's a big product, ground date, big data. And then so you're like, cool, I got some exposure to data, then more to the visualization aspect of it. But even leaving Splunk you're like, I was super bored. Like, I was barely doing anything. And then getting thrown into the startup, which taught you so much like I think that, you know, just even hearing, like going back to your mom and being like, hey, you know, like, I wasn't learning at Splunk, I wasn't growing. And then just jumping to that next roll was so useful. It shot you into the next thing, which is really cool to hear. I am curious, what made you decide, Hey, I've done two jobs. I want to now be fully on my own and freelance, which, to be honest, can be very scary. And I'm sure you had moments of scariness doing that. + +

+

Shirley Wu
+Oh, my God, it was so scary. Imagine explaining that to your very Chinese parents. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+Thinking that two is going back to the Splunk. And thinking about it that way. I'm like, Yeah, I bet Surely his mom had something to say about this. + +

+

Shirley Wu
+Yeah, I'm what I'm really thankful about my parents is they've always been like, very supportive in the sense of like, they've never been the kind of like Chinese parents that are like, You must be doctor, engineer, lawyer, lawyers, the last one. And so they never they were like, as long as you're happy. My dad used to be like, you know, as long as you don't end up in jail. He's like, Yeah, um, but he, like, would step in once in a while, like, when I got my first See, he was like, What are you doing? But yeah, so they've always given me a certain amount of freedom to choose, like, what I want to do they do help like, little like, I don't understand your decisions. But you do you. So yeah, it's definitely very interesting, because like, my parents definitely came from China with a goal of stability. And their daughter is like, I'm gonna go do one of the most unstable things out there and freelance. And, yeah, it was really scary, especially the, for the first six months when I'm, if I remember correctly, in my first six months, I made $20,000. It was very little. And but I think, and I do also want to say that I'm not a very risk taking person, or at least before that, I didn't think I was a very risk taking person. And that's the experience that kind of taught me there's like a difference between like, calculated risk and like, like a risk with like, a certain amount of confidence that it will pay off versus like, just blind risk. But one of the biggest realizations I had was at the startup, especially my first year, because like, first year, you feel like you need to put in your time and like, prove your worth. And so for my first year, I was literally working like nights and weekends, like the, you know, like the typical young startup life, especially coming from like, how it was like Splunk. And so I was giving it my all and I'm really proud of the work I did. But one of the things I realized one of those, like late nights when I like looked up and it was like 9pm, and I was still in the office. And I was like, Wait Why am I putting it? Like, why am I basically sacrificing my nights and weekends for someone else's dream. And then I started like, and then they became a lot more like, clear of that a job is where the employer is exchanging money for my time, and I just said something very obvious. That time is the expectation is something like nine to six. And if time is one of my most valuable resources, why am I giving up more of that resource for the same amount of money because we're all salaried? And that's when I realized that with the extra time I have I want to be working on my own dreams than someone else's dream. I was 24 and this felt revolutionary. And so that's and I stuck it out for a while because I loved by while I mean two and a half years, which I feel like in startup years is like five years. Yeah, I + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+was gonna say I'm actually a while like it honest. So yeah, I think I think to my career, and I'm like, yeah, it's usually a couple years at a place. So that's, that's a fair amount. + +

+

Shirley Wu
+Yeah. And so I stuck it out until like, and I'm really proud of the fact that I quit. There was also a lot of unfortunate politics that have happened. And so but I was really proud that I quit not because of the politics, but because I had, I had also realized that the product that had helped kind of build has started to kind of enter like a maintenance phase. And that made me realize that I very much enjoy the upfront building, and not as much the kind of like maintenance, which I highly respect people that maintain, because that is a hard job. But I just knew it wasn't for me. And that's when I realized, like, I loved the coding and data visualization part of my job. But I did not really care about enterprise, like enterprise security as an industry. And that's when I decided that I wanted to try freelancing so that I can try my hand out like a lot of different industries and kind of see what I like, and then maybe settle back into a full time job. And, and the surprise or not surprise is that what I ended up loving was the freedom of freelancing. And I have never gone back to a full time job since. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+But which is cool, because you've found what you love. That's really cool to hear. And so yeah, yeah, you've been able to work on some pretty amazing projects, too. And like just amazing clients that you've worked with and done so many cool things that I personally have enjoyed seeing your work that way. So I think, like, cool to see that what's, how do you have some favorite projects, or ones that like, stick out where you're like, Oh, that was like, really something I'm super proud of? + +

+

Shirley Wu
+Yeah, I have a few that were like, they shifted like, there were like mental shifts and how I think about my career. But before that, I just wanted to kind of finish saying about the freelancing that it was a risk. But I had also, at that time, fortunately had some amount in my savings that I had, like, six months of padding. And I like, and so that allowed me I can I feel like this is a whole other episode of like freelancing and how to get into freelancing. But I think the few things I do want to say for anybody that might be interested in it is like having that padding was extremely helpful, because it gave me the luxury of being able to say no to projects, I didn't think were a good fit, and not have to be desperate about taking on things for money. And also, I had to promise my parents that if I didn't make the same amount, my first year freelancing as I did a full time job, then I would go back to a full time job. And that made me really work hard. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+I kind of like that though. It's it gave you that the here's the line that I need to meet and like giving yourself that drive and meeting those expectations, which sometimes it's like being freelance or you know, any of that, like, you have to hustle, like going into a job and like, it's just like, I have to do this work. And I know that someone's taking care of that part for you. But when it's on you, you have to hustle too. So yeah, that's really cool. I like that having that like line in the sand. Yeah, + +

+

Shirley Wu
+thank you. Yeah. For the projects. I think one of my first favorite projects is like the the Hamilton one. It's called an interactive visualization of every line and Hamilton is such a long name. But um, it's basically a what we call in the data visualization world a scrolly telling where as you scroll, the visualization animates. And then there's certain stories that I kind of weave together with the visualizations from my analyses what I learned about the musical and at the very end, I give like an interactive visual tool for exploring the lyrics, the theme, the recurring themes, and the characters. That one was a big one, because it was the first time like, my work has gotten that amount of attention. And, um, it made me realize two things that I'm the first thing being that what I thought was like this little thing, this little data visualization thing that I liked doing that feels kind of silly and not serious could actually reach people. And there was like, a lot of people that were like, Whoa, I didn't know coding could be so cool. And there was actually a lot of women young women that were that were like, I'm taking a CS class right Now, and I didn't know that code could be so beautiful. And that was like, Holy crap. And then my favorite tweet was like, this mom tweeted me that like, she and her son were learning how to code together. And that they were big Hamilton fans, and that when he got back from school that she was going to share it with him. And I was like, Oh, my God, like, I didn't know my work can bring like a mother son together. And it was a very beautiful moment. Wow, that was kind of like I'm + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+moved by. That's amazing. + +

+

Shirley Wu
+Thank you, thank you. That was like one of the big mental shifts of like, I think I had, I had, I have this tendency to not take myself seriously or downplay myself. So that was like one of the big moments where I was like, kind of a confidence booster. And then there were another one that I got to work with my friend naughty, and The Guardian, the US Guardian team on a project called bust out. And there was this big investigative journalism piece about how American cities buy bus tickets for their homeless people to kind of essentially shuttle them to another city. And that was the piece in which it was a big one that like, actually, there were like, actually inspire like policy talks. And, and that was a moment I was like, oh, again, this silly, this thing that I thought I was just doing when like silly thing I was doing can actually be serious and actually, like, have an impact. And that was really cool. And then I did a few others, more for like art museums. And I did one with SF MOMA that made me realize how much I appreciated creative freedom, and how much I loved art still, because it was being an artist was like a four year old dream that like when I was a four year old, and I gave up on it, because I realized that it's hard to make a good sustainable living as an artist. And then I realized that was also the moment I realized that I love data visualization, because it's the closest thing to art that I can still get a tech company to pay for. Yeah, and I think one last one is a project I did call legends, which is a 3d visualization of women, Nobel Laureates. And that's when I realized that out of the almost 1000 Nobel laureates, only 5053 are women. And that's, + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+yeah, that's so little, yeah, I have + +

+

Shirley Wu
+a whole reveal with that project where each woman is representative to Crystal and you can like, like, navigate amongst them and read about their accomplishments. And if you kind of like quote, unquote, like fly up, you can see them arranged by decade. And you can see how few of them there are per decade. And then the reveal is that each of the stars floating around them represent one of the 893 or 190, something men that have gotten the award. So that's also really informed kind of the topics, the datasets that I'm interested in since, yeah, that was a + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+lot. Oh, I love it. I mean, because I've seen a lot of these pieces. So hearing you talk through them is like really exciting, too. And one thing that I'll just say that stuck out to me that I've always loved about your work, and even did data and visualization in general. But I think I've always seen you take it to the next level. It's not just a dataset, it's it's, it tells a story like the Hamilton one, it's telling a full on story. And even just the last couple that you said there, too, it's pointing out that there's this clear problem or misrepresentation of women. But it tells us whole story. And it's done very beautifully. And so it's like true real world data that draws attention. And it's not just like me sitting there reading a bar chart or, you know, a nice little part pie graph. Like, it's not that. And I think that that, to me is really much where you've tied the art and data to tell a story. And I think it is super powerful. So but I get it too is like sometimes you get in your own head. And you know, you're like yeah, I mean, no one's gonna care about this so much. It's really cool, but like, they don't care, but they do. And that's really cool. Yeah, thank you. Obviously, you've been doing freelance for a while now. Your peers still doing some freelance, I think but it's also you've done a new journey, which is going back to school. What made that change happen? Yeah, I + +

+

Shirley Wu
+actually I'm not freelancing currently. And I decided to not freelance out all for the two years I'm in school. I just couldn't handle both. I think I'm like a very like one track minded person. But yeah, thank you for asking. Um, so one of the opportunities I got while I was freelancing is that I started this project called Data sketches with my friend, Nadi. Bremmer, who's absolutely amazing. Like, she just creates beautiful, stunning, but like, also, like you were saying, like, visualizations that have a story that like, is very much like, brings people in, we worked on a project called Data sketches, which we actually talked about a little bit on a previous episode. And the premise of data sketches was 12 topics. And for each topic, we both make a data visualization from scratch, and we write about the data gathering process, the data exploration, the design and the code. And we got the opportunity to write a book or turn all of those documentation into a book. And, and, and that was an amazing process. But homeboy, I was so burnt out. And that was kind of our one of our previous episodes was about what it's like to write a book. But I realized, once we turned in the manuscript for that book, that I had, like spent a whole month just staring at my work and staring at my words, talking about my work. And I was so burnt out that I was like, I don't think I want to look at my work anymore. Like, I don't think I want to do what I used to do. Which is extremely ironic, because one of my like, when we first signed the book deal, and I was like, Oh, I hope this gets us more clients in the space that I'm doing it like, I hope it gets us or it gets me more clients working on projects that I love. And then we turned in the manuscript. And now I'm like, I don't think I want to do this anymore. And so I went through like a good few months of burnout, where I was like, I don't know what I want to do, which was like, very like, didn't help that it was middle of a pandemic. But also, I think it was just really weird to have something that I used to love, which is like coding and AR and data vis and like, not want to touch it anymore. And that was when I realized, like, I think I want that was when I realized, like what I still love is the learning. I think what I've always loved, like we mentioned before is like learning new things. And I think more than data visualization itself, what I loved was that there was so much to learn, and trying to get better at the craft. And I think once we had written a book, I felt like I had learned all that I wanted to learn in that field. And and so that's why I decided to go back to school, because what I realized is + +I love learning, learning stimulates me, but also that one of the things that I do still love is trying to tell stories with data, like finding those nuggets of stories is really exciting. So I'm now back at grad program at New York University called ITP, which is kind of this program at the intersection of art and technology. So using emerging technology to make art. And I'm here because I've had kind of this like yours long dream of like, what would it look like if I can take the data visualizations that I created for the screen? But instead of something flat and two dimensional? What if it becomes a whole, like physical world immersive experience? And what would that be like to tell a story? So that's what I'm trying to explore here of like, what are the technologies that enable that? Is it even possible? But also, what does it mean to kind of shift from like a freelance, you know, I think this is another thing I've been doing a lot of like, and like reflection and this is another thing of like, I've always tried to make myself small. I think it's just my background of being Chinese woman and being like a woman in tech. I think I've always subconsciously or unconsciously made myself small and like, so what does it mean for me to transition from kind of like an Icee of like a designer developer to something more like a creative director role, like what does that look like for me? And what does it look like to be a creative director that can tell data stories in a lot of different mediums? So that's what I'm trying to Explore hair. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+I love that. No, I love how you just like you bridge the gap to more learning. And then like, here's where I want to go with in the future. Maybe before we fully close out, or I have one question that if you were to do something different, I feel like you're doing different things. So this might be a little different in asking it. But like, if you didn't do tech at all, what would it be? Like? If you started over? What would you choose? Oh, no, it's not in finance. I know that I + +

+

Shirley Wu
+did that and decided not to do that. I don't know. Maybe I'm just like, so hyper focused on when I was a kid, I wanted to be an artist, I wanted to actually for like a like, brief blip of time, I was like, I want to go to Pixar and be like a computer graphics. person, I didn't even know what computer graphics really meant. I was like 10. And so there are dreams I've had when I was a child. But I think what's exciting for me now is that I've, I'm closer and closer to accomplishing those dreams, but from a path that I would have never imagined as a child, which is the tech part. Like I think I would have been like a mediocre artist professionally. But I think weaving technology into it has been really like using code using software for the creative expression has been so fun. So I can't I don't know how to imagine. Even Even if I'm saying even if I say artist, like I can't imagine being an artist without the tech part now. I don't know another can like chill, retire you traveling around the world be like a career. Because that would be like if you take the tech Oh my god. Okay, hopefully short story when I was in Japan pre pandemic, hi. We met this person that split his time between San Francisco and Tokyo. So he would like you know, do half the year so he would I he would do the spring months and Tokyo because spring is beautiful in Tokyo, then he would do the summer months in SF because you know, like summer in Tokyo is sucks. Thank you would do the fall months in Tokyo because it's again, so beautiful with the like the color change, and then you would go back to SF for the winter. And then he like gave us his business card because everybody in Japan has a business card. And it just said, I can't even remember his name anymore. But it says something like travel, travel yoga Wine Enthusiast. That's my life goal. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+Sounds pretty good. Yeah, I like that title. That sounds really nice. That's really cool. Yeah. All right. As we close out, what would you like to leave the listeners with a piece of advice or any last words, + +

+

Shirley Wu
+there's something that I've been thinking about a lot while I've been back in school, which is that I'm obviously on the older side of the student demographic on my program. And a lot of the other students are much younger, like, maybe straight out of undergraduate or like only a few years out of there. And they have like a hustle and drive that I no longer feel. I just feel really tired. And I want to take it chill. And so I've been trying to be better at taking it chill. And so I've been trying to remind myself that I'm I put in the time in my 20s. And I'm reaping the benefits of that now. And my taking a break now and taking it slow is a gift I can give a give myself in the future because I'm sure I'll also reap the benefits of my taking a break from the hustle and the quick pace. And then workaholism and just taking some time for myself to really like I guess give myself space to figure out what it is that I want to do next and not get swept away with like the hustle of everybody around me especially because it's New York and then I don't think that was any sort of like sage advice for any of our late and like listeners. But I hope that if anybody feels the way that I do right now, having gone through two years of a pandemic and feeling really burnt out and not really sure about life. I hope that at least is helpful. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+No, that's super helpful. Well, thank you so much surely for taking the time and you know, sharing a lot of interesting background. I hope our lives Sisters really enjoy it Thank you + +

+

Shirley Wu
+Thank you Ryan + +

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Made with by Front End Happy Hour
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Ryan Burgess
+All right, welcome to a brand new episode of the front end, happy hour. As you've heard in probably some of our episodes, this year, we've done a spin sprinkling in some interviews with each of our panelists that we've called our sidebar interview specials. I don't know what you want to call it, but we're going deep on each of our panelists on their backgrounds or careers, just to really answer some of the questions that people have asked us throughout the years. So I get the opportunity now to interview surely, surely, whoo. Thank you for giving us the opportunity to maybe go deep on your background. Oh, my God, + + +

Shirley Wu
+thank you for taking the time and so excited to talk to you about myself. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+I mean, it's an easy subject, right? Like, you know, the answers. It's like one of those ones to be like, I got this + +

+

Shirley Wu
+do I don't know. I feel like it's like harder to talk about yourself. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+It really honestly is. Let's start off easy. Surely. Where'd you grow up? + +

+

Shirley Wu
+Oh, yeah. Okay, so this is actually a little bit of a long answer. I was born in the Philippines. But my parents are both Chinese. So we went back to China when I was two, then we moved to Japan when I was four. And then we moved to SoCal when I was 10. And then I've been in the US since Southern California. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+Yeah, I guess we should clarify that. That's good. Yeah, we're where we're in Southern California. Where did you move to? + +

+

Shirley Wu
+I it was right outside of LA and Ventura County. Like 10 miles from the beach. It was really nice. But I did grow to hate the beach, actually. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+You hate the beach? How come? + +

+

Shirley Wu
+It was a really stupid like middle school mistake I made where okay, this is gonna sound really spoil. But for our middle school every year, like the kids that like I guessed, were well behaved, quote, unquote, I can't remember that. But there was like a point system. And so if you like got more than like, a certain number of points, then your end of the year reward was like a day at the beach. And then like, they would get in and out cater to you. Um, and, and in seventh grade, I went, and it was an overcast day. So I was like, I don't use sunscreen. And I got a second degree burn on my back. And I've kind of disliked it since very stupid reason. Because it's not the beach is full. But + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+no, but that huge of a sunburn is not a good feeling. So yeah, I mean, I get it. Like, it's just like, I won't even bother at the beach. I don't even have to risk it again. + +

+

Shirley Wu
+That's fair. And that was when I learned that UV rays go through clouds. I didn't + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+know, mistakes, and you learn from them. Right? Like, that's when you're 12, I guess make them when you're tall. So I take it to from that little story to that you were like one of the good kids because you were awarded for going to the beach. + +

+

Shirley Wu
+Yeah, I, I cannot deny it. I mean, I'm, I guess, Asian American child. And then as an Asian American child, I was expected to behave a certain way. And I like to say that I have my teenage rebellion in my mid 20s. And that's when I refuse to listen to my parents because believe it or not, Asian parents, or at least Chinese parents have an opinion on what you do. Well pass, like after you graduate from college. And that was when I was like, Nope, I'm financially independent. I will. You can give me advice, but I am not obligated to listen to them anymore. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+That's fair. I did that a lot sooner, but took you a bit longer I guess. + +

+

Shirley Wu
+I when I was a child, I was like, I'm not gonna bite the hand that feeds me + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+this you know, you're just a lot smarter than me. Surely that's all like, what brought you like you and your family? Like this is not a small move. We're talking countries. What brought your family to move to Southern California? + +

+

Shirley Wu
+Oh, yeah. So all of the moves that we had. Were because my dad got new jobs and new opportunities in those different places. Yeah, yeah. All of them were because of my dad's job. And they were and I guess it's because he's like such a very specific research scientist that like he got very specific jobs and like different countries. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+Awesome. Oh, that makes sense. And were it was it an exciting moment to be like, Oh, I'm moving to this weird country or + +

+

Shirley Wu
+Oh, man. Okay, so this is where I speak about a little bit like unpleasant things, which is, so I grew up in Japan, in my life kindergarten to elementary like fourth grade. And I grew up in the Japanese countryside as the only Chinese kid and then elementary school full of, you know, Japanese kids and then naive knees, where there was really big discrimination against anybody that wasn't Japanese, or white, honestly. So I got bullied a lot, I got called names I got, I got, I don't know, got into fights, I got ignored all the like little kid bullying tactics. And so I actually was really relieved when my parents were like, we're gonna, we're gonna move to America. And I'm like, thank goodness, like I was kind of like, I was kind of sad about it. Because there were aspects of living in Japan that I loved. I had, like, started to make some friends. But it was also kind of really tumultuous. And for actually, I'm extremely grateful to my parents for having made the decision that they did. Apparently, one of the other places that were that they were considering, like, my dad had gotten a job offer six months prior to the, like the US job offer, he had gotten one from Germany, like a German company. So if like the US company hadn't, I guess reached out around the same time, I will be speaking German. I mean, I'd be, that would be really cool. But like, I really appreciate the decisions that they made for us, like for their kids, because they were like, oh, it'd be better for us to move to the US because there's better education opportunities for like, and I'm just really grateful that they made that decision. Because I can imagine that if I had grown up in Japan, I'd be a completely different person. I think I would be like very much lacking self confidence because of the way I was bullied. Because I think when I was a kid, I thought it was all my fault. Like, I thought I just was like, not likable. And then I came to America, and like people didn't bully me. And I was like, oh, so it wasn't all because of me. And so that was really helpful for my self confidence. And then also, I think I wouldn't have gotten into tech, if I was in Japan still, because I think I think there's an even stronger social pressure for girls to not be into the math and sciences and like to be, you know, that, like, our goals, when we grow up should be like a happy marriage and like being a good housewife. And so, yeah, because of that one decision my parents made, I am who I am now, today. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+I mean, we're all thankful for it too. Because like I've ever met, then I've never been to Germany, so that, you know, yeah, number of happen. + +

+

Shirley Wu
+Yeah, I am so happy about like, all of the people I've gotten to meet, like, through the conferences that we've been to, and just like, Yeah, I'm very grateful. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+I always love that, too. So you're growing up in Southern California? What are some things that you like to do as a child like other than I mean, not go to the beach, we know that, but + +

+

Shirley Wu
+that's very nerdy. And, like, still very nerdy. But I think some of the I was thinking about this about like, my childhood because I listened to your episode, and I loved and I loved how you were talking about, like, how much you loved R and like, like, skateboarding and then getting into graffiti and how there's always been like, a very creative side to you. And I was kind of thinking about my childhood and how like, one of the things that were really fun and good about Japan was like, I wrote so much manga, like Japanese comics. And there used to be this culture. I don't even I don't know if there's still this culture. But there was like a culture called like, Tata Yomi, which means to like, go to a bookstore, and then just read, like, stand there and read comics because back then in the 90s, like people wouldn't the book shopkeepers wouldn't yell at you. If you just took a book off the shelf and start we started reading it because you're sampling it, but like, you can sample all the way to the end and never buy anything. So my friends and I used to like go to bookstores, like on Sunday mornings, and just like quote unquote, sample manga for like the entire day. And I think because of that, when I got to America, I really, really miss As to like, you know, being able to read the manga watching the anime, the Japanese dramas. And I was in like a very non Asian suburb right outside of LA like with like, like, still even now there's like, no good boba shops within like a 15 minute driving. Yes, I know, even now and 2022. So I like had no access to like manga, right. And so I actually turned to the internet and like looking back now, my first eye Yes, like, brush with code, not really code, but like kind of that side is like with IRC because because I figured out that I could download all of the original raw Japanese, like manga, and like, and I can download all of them through IRC. So like, I started going into those chat rooms, which meant I started getting introduced to people that were scan leading. So I actually helped scan like I helped to translate from like Chinese and Japanese into English for a while. And then I saw that they were making websites to host their scanlations. And that's how I got into like Photoshop and like, making websites and like, I learned HTML and CSS. And I, like I remember freshman, sophomore year, like my joy was like, during the school day, I would dream up what my new website design would be, I think I went through like 12 or 13 Different designer, like different designs, like it would be like v 12. And then I would come home. And I will like, make it in Photoshop and like lay it out with HTML. And I never got into JavaScript because it was too intimidating. Like I knew nobody, like none of my family members were like computer scientists or software engineers. And our town was like a biopharmaceutical town. So like, nobody around me were software engineers, I didn't know anything about code. So JavaScript was extremely intimidating to me. But I always thought it was so cool to be able to make something on the internet. And that's, that's how, like when I got into and our high school didn't even have computer science classes. But when I got to high school, or when I got to college, I was like, I want to take a CS class. And that's how it was all manga actually at one point. I know, right? I won't point I actually, quote unquote, managed other people to help me upload like scanlations onto my manga hosting website is a nerdiest? + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+No, it's like, I mean, you learn so many skill sets off of something that you love. And it's like, you're learning all these things to enable yourself to do this one thing. And then while doing that, you're building up the skill set and being like, Wait, actually, like doing some of these things like Photoshop and building a site? Now I have one follow up question. Where do you host these sites? Like I think that can tell a lot about the time and everything to oh my gosh, were you like publishing? I always think back to like, my early times of HTML was like the geo cities Angel Fire, what was the thing at a time? + +

+

Shirley Wu
+Oh, my God, I I forgotten what domains I used to have. I, I think probably geo cities, I don't remember what my website was hosted on. It was like one of those free hosting services where you don't get your own domain name. But I do remember that because it was free, we don't get any storage, right? So then I'll end the like, like, the scanlations are images that are like, I mean, now it's very small files, but back then they were like very big files. So we will upload them to photo bucket. And so I used to have and the the people that I managed were like the ones that had different photo bucket accounts, because photo bucket has Yeah, a limitation like a like a storage limitation. So like, you know, I had people that were had multiple photo bucket accounts, and they were like, responsible for uploading different chapters of manga. Um, and then I remember at that quote, unquote peak of my website, I was getting called enough traffic that I could apply to this like special like domain. It was like a special web hosting platform dedicated to only manga and anime websites. And if you could prove that you had enough content and traffic, then they gave you your own donate domain name and a certain amount of file storage so that you don't have to rely on photo bucket. That was that was the peak of my career. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+So cool. I mean, super rewarding to at that point where you're like, Yeah, this is like I've made it. I've done something pretty impressive that people are noticing. So that's really cool. + +

+

Shirley Wu
+Yeah. And then I had to shut it down because I had started taking AP classes. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+I love it. So this is like leading you right into college, then at that time or university? + +

+

Shirley Wu
+No, no, this was this was like my freshman and sophomore year, and then junior year, I was taking like four or five AP classes. So it's like, I can't handle this. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+Fair enough. So So built up the love for computers coding. And then like you said, your high school did not offer any computer science. So you went to university and decided computer science? + +

+

Shirley Wu
+Nope, no. Um, so this is another weird part about my, like, weird logic, which is, um, my parents are very math and science oriented. So I'm from a young age, like our family activity was that we would sit down and do like math problems together. So like, by the time that I graduated high school, I have basically taken like, all available math and science classes like that my high school had. And by that point, I was like, I don't want to do this anymore. Like, I'm like math and science doubt, I'm gonna do the complete opposite. And for a 17 year old brain, the complete opposite of math and science was business. + +I went and declared undergrad business, and I thought I was gonna go into investment banking. And into finance, which I think what I didn't realize at the time is, like, I love I liked finance the most because it had to do with numbers, because I actually really liked math. And then, but I, like took CS classes on the side. Um, I took one my freshman year, I loved it, but I was not good at the tests. I'm a really shitty test taker. And so I think that was my first C in my life. Um, and the thing with our business major at our school was like, really weird where you got into the University. But to get into the business program, you have to apply your sophomore year to get in your junior year, like, you can't even just declare the major, like you had to get accepted to be able to declare it. And like, like, 50% of the application was GPA. So I was like, Yes, I'm not taking any more CS classes, because I'm so shitty at it. Um, so I didn't take another CS class until my junior year and when my junior year after I had gotten into the business program, I was like, Well, I'm already here. I guess I can screw up my GPA now. So and I loved my CS class. So I started taking more CS classes. And the more CS classes I took, I was like, wait, I frickin love this. Like, I love this more than the finance classes or business classes I'm taking. And I had, like two investment banking internships. And by the end of my summer, junior year, I was like, I don't think I can do as investment banking. I don't think it's like, my personality. I don't think I can work like 100 hours a week and be happy about it. So my senior year, I went into my senior year of being like, Yeah, I'm gonna try and get a software job. I don't think this is realistic. But I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna I'm gonna try and double NCS. And when I told all of my friends, they were like, Dude, we knew this was gonna happen when you first said that you weren't going into business. We were like, what? We knew you would come back around to like something mathy. And so yeah, senior year, I just took like so many computer science classes. And then it was actually really hard because I had a lot of insecurity, like a lot of insecurity. Because I was going up against like, our school CS program is like one of the top in the nation and then like, I was going up against those people that had like, taken CS classes all four years and done all of their internships out like different like I Google and Facebook, and I was like, why would anyone hire me like for full time? But I think what I did I knew back then was that for a lot of good hiring managers, the passion and excitement is what's important. And I had a whole story about why I wanted to get into tech, which is that I realized that business wasn't for me. And I wanted so desperately to get a software engineering job because I loved coding. And that really resonated and that's how I was able to get my first full time software job out of college and, and I went to a big data company called Splunk. Doing a + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+Friday. Yeah, we know a lot about Splunk. That's awesome. So that was your first job out of school, like done, you're in it? Where is Splunk? Located? Like, because I'm following like, you were in the south, like South California. Now you're moving up north? Oh, + +

+

Shirley Wu
+yeah. Yeah, sorry. Um, I went to university at Berkeley or in it was I went to Berkeley. So I was already in the bay. And so it was really easy for me to just like, cross the bridge to SF. So Splunk is headquartered in SF. To this day, one of my favorite friend happy hour episodes is the one about impostor syndrome. And I know we did it again. But that resonated so much with me, because I know, I think like that whole experience of, you know, landing a full time job after only three semesters of CS co coursework with no internship experience, I thought I had somehow just, like, faked my way. And like, I couldn't believe that anybody wanted me, like my manager is to this day, one of my favorite managers I've ever had, and he was so good. He's like, No, you made it here for a reason. Like, you're, you're really good at what you do. But at that time, I was like, so blinded by my own imposter syndrome. I couldn't believe him. And yeah. And so I just, I just want to say like, to anyone that feels impostor syndrome, like, I, I get it. And I think the only way that I got out of it was just like, I think that imposter syndrome, like it gave me like a amount of desperation where I just wanted to learn everything I like. That's how I got out of it the second time or the first time around. And then there was like, waves of imposter syndrome later in my career, too, that I think we've talked about. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+Yeah, I think it's one of those things that doesn't fully go away. You have moments of it, and but I also like, the positive side of it, too, is that you're like, it forced me to really learn more and just feel like, yeah, I still need to, like keep pushing myself, which, I mean, sometimes that's a positive side out of it, too, because imposter syndrome can be pretty crippling. So it's almost like good that it was a big driver. Yeah, + +

+

Shirley Wu
+it was very crippling. While it was like suffocating while I had it. But I am grateful that I think I can now recognize that it was also unhealthy the amount of like, overworking myself I was doing. But I also do appreciate the work that my past self put in. So too, because that's, I am where I am now, because of the all the imposter syndrome and desperation and the work that my past self has put in. Yeah, it's hard. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+It's not easy, but I love it. Thank you. So first job Splunk. How long did you stay at Splunk for I + +

+

Shirley Wu
+was there for a year and a half. And I was there at a very interesting time. So I actually signed that week after Splunk had gone public. So I actually thought that I like I actually thought I had lost my offer. Because like the recruiter was non responsive for like two weeks after they gave me the verbal offer. And like and then later on, I found out it was because they were busy going public and celebrating. And so I think I got my offer, like the same day or the second day after they went public. But it was such an interesting time because I think we went from like, I joined when there was about 400 people. And then a year and a half later when I left, right, not even a year and a half. It was like, yeah, when I left it was like 12 or 1300 people. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+Wow. That's small. That's pretty quick growth. Yeah. And + +

+

Shirley Wu
+I think that um, that's one of the big reasons why I left because I think they were just having so much growing pains that I just wasn't getting work like for six months. I wasn't put on any major projects because they kept on being like we need to figure out the roadmap and like things kept on getting scrapped, and like they were tried to put me on something and then that we get scrapped for something else. And then. And so like they had me on that waiting pattern to like, try to put me on something that was more stable. But because of all the growing pains, it was just, I think one of the key moments I still remember is like, Oh, my mom loved my Splunk shop. And she's like, What do you mean, you don't do anything, you still get a nice salary and all those stock options, your stocks are doing like so well, like, and I'm like, Mother, I am 23. If there's any time in my life for me to be like fighting, and like hustling, and working hard it is now. So moment, when I knew that I needed to leave was like, there was one day when I was working from home. And literally, I got one bug in the morning, I fixed in 30 minutes and one bug in the afternoon. I fixed in 30 minutes. And then I'm marathon and finished a whole Japanese drama series. And I was like, it's nice to be getting paid to do this. But also, I think this is better when I'm like 15 not 23 + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+I hear you. It's like there's those moments where you're like I have I don't need to be comfortable right now. It's like also yes, for us. And like, I feel like engineering. It's just like, you want to keep learning. And if you're just like not being challenged enough, it can get really tall. And I mean, I personally couldn't sit there and just have nothing. I've been in those jobs. So I I totally get it. + +

+

Shirley Wu
+Yeah, I totally agree. I think a lot of us that are so like love front end and are so involved in it is because of how fast paced it is. And like the learning is, I really do think the fast paced learning is what keeps it exciting, even like a decade later. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+Yeah, I couldn't agree more. So you decided, you know, I gotta get more challenges. Try something differently. What what did you do next after Splunk? + +

+

Shirley Wu
+Yeah, yeah. So one of the really great things about being that Splunk was that it was a big data company. And I was on one of the front end teams, and oh my god, I can't wax poetics about how good my manager was because he likes shielded us from all of the politics. But another thing that he encouraged was he was like, Hey, that was around when d3 had just come out. So it was like a year after d3 had just started in my like, first week or so he was like, Hey, you're not on any projects yet. And there's this like, new thing called d3 we're interested in, um, do you want to give it a try? And I was like, Okay. And so he kind of just like helped me, like, so it like kind of helped me get into d3. And I ended up loving it because I'm one of the things I guess I didn't mention earlier is that I actually also loved art, like drawing and painting growing up. And so I actually like, did watercolors since I was like four or five never like, always, like very amateur. But I did do art classes for all four years of high school and entered competitions. And I loved painting. And I loved drawing, but I gave it up all cold turkey and university because I was like, I would just spend like all day drawing or a painting, and not really, and I do my homework out like the last two hours. And I feel like I could only get by on that because it was high school. Yeah. But then when I got to university, I was like, I definitely cannot sustain that. So I just like quit drawing did join a graphic design club in college. But I think I did explain that in my interviews. So my manager was like, you want to give this d3 thing like this data visualization thing I try. And I loved it because it was it was math, and it was code and it was art. And so once I fell into that, I knew that for my next job, I wanted to do something like data visualization related. And that's how I landed up a startup that was a an enterprise security company called Illumio. And I was there for two and a half years. And it was like a really great experience because I gained so much technical, like technical skill from that. Um, if my first job at Splunk gave me like confidence with d3, then my second one gave me a lot of confidence about like, how to build a product or how to help build a product from the ground up like from scratch. And that's where I really did a lot of d3 with like first with Backbone, then with React and thinking about software architecture, but also like kind of like into our team lations like, how do you convince others about your idea? I learned so much from a technical aspect at that job. And I think that's what set me up really well, from at least a technical perspective, when I decided to quit and start freelancing. That's kind of my like, next step. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+That's really cool, too. I love that like, going from Splunk, like, super data, like oriented, right? Obviously, like Splunk is, that's a big product, ground date, big data. And then so you're like, cool, I got some exposure to data, then more to the visualization aspect of it. But even leaving Splunk you're like, I was super bored. Like, I was barely doing anything. And then getting thrown into the startup, which taught you so much like I think that, you know, just even hearing, like going back to your mom and being like, hey, you know, like, I wasn't learning at Splunk, I wasn't growing. And then just jumping to that next roll was so useful. It shot you into the next thing, which is really cool to hear. I am curious, what made you decide, Hey, I've done two jobs. I want to now be fully on my own and freelance, which, to be honest, can be very scary. And I'm sure you had moments of scariness doing that. + +

+

Shirley Wu
+Oh, my God, it was so scary. Imagine explaining that to your very Chinese parents. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+Thinking that two is going back to the Splunk. And thinking about it that way. I'm like, Yeah, I bet Surely his mom had something to say about this. + +

+

Shirley Wu
+Yeah, I'm what I'm really thankful about my parents is they've always been like, very supportive in the sense of like, they've never been the kind of like Chinese parents that are like, You must be doctor, engineer, lawyer, lawyers, the last one. And so they never they were like, as long as you're happy. My dad used to be like, you know, as long as you don't end up in jail. He's like, Yeah, um, but he, like, would step in once in a while, like, when I got my first See, he was like, What are you doing? But yeah, so they've always given me a certain amount of freedom to choose, like, what I want to do they do help like, little like, I don't understand your decisions. But you do you. So yeah, it's definitely very interesting, because like, my parents definitely came from China with a goal of stability. And their daughter is like, I'm gonna go do one of the most unstable things out there and freelance. And, yeah, it was really scary, especially the, for the first six months when I'm, if I remember correctly, in my first six months, I made $20,000. It was very little. And but I think, and I do also want to say that I'm not a very risk taking person, or at least before that, I didn't think I was a very risk taking person. And that's the experience that kind of taught me there's like a difference between like, calculated risk and like, like a risk with like, a certain amount of confidence that it will pay off versus like, just blind risk. But one of the biggest realizations I had was at the startup, especially my first year, because like, first year, you feel like you need to put in your time and like, prove your worth. And so for my first year, I was literally working like nights and weekends, like the, you know, like the typical young startup life, especially coming from like, how it was like Splunk. And so I was giving it my all and I'm really proud of the work I did. But one of the things I realized one of those, like late nights when I like looked up and it was like 9pm, and I was still in the office. And I was like, Wait Why am I putting it? Like, why am I basically sacrificing my nights and weekends for someone else's dream. And then I started like, and then they became a lot more like, clear of that a job is where the employer is exchanging money for my time, and I just said something very obvious. That time is the expectation is something like nine to six. And if time is one of my most valuable resources, why am I giving up more of that resource for the same amount of money because we're all salaried? And that's when I realized that with the extra time I have I want to be working on my own dreams than someone else's dream. I was 24 and this felt revolutionary. And so that's and I stuck it out for a while because I loved by while I mean two and a half years, which I feel like in startup years is like five years. Yeah, I + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+was gonna say I'm actually a while like it honest. So yeah, I think I think to my career, and I'm like, yeah, it's usually a couple years at a place. So that's, that's a fair amount. + +

+

Shirley Wu
+Yeah. And so I stuck it out until like, and I'm really proud of the fact that I quit. There was also a lot of unfortunate politics that have happened. And so but I was really proud that I quit not because of the politics, but because I had, I had also realized that the product that had helped kind of build has started to kind of enter like a maintenance phase. And that made me realize that I very much enjoy the upfront building, and not as much the kind of like maintenance, which I highly respect people that maintain, because that is a hard job. But I just knew it wasn't for me. And that's when I realized, like, I loved the coding and data visualization part of my job. But I did not really care about enterprise, like enterprise security as an industry. And that's when I decided that I wanted to try freelancing so that I can try my hand out like a lot of different industries and kind of see what I like, and then maybe settle back into a full time job. And, and the surprise or not surprise is that what I ended up loving was the freedom of freelancing. And I have never gone back to a full time job since. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+But which is cool, because you've found what you love. That's really cool to hear. And so yeah, yeah, you've been able to work on some pretty amazing projects, too. And like just amazing clients that you've worked with and done so many cool things that I personally have enjoyed seeing your work that way. So I think, like, cool to see that what's, how do you have some favorite projects, or ones that like, stick out where you're like, Oh, that was like, really something I'm super proud of? + +

+

Shirley Wu
+Yeah, I have a few that were like, they shifted like, there were like mental shifts and how I think about my career. But before that, I just wanted to kind of finish saying about the freelancing that it was a risk. But I had also, at that time, fortunately had some amount in my savings that I had, like, six months of padding. And I like, and so that allowed me I can I feel like this is a whole other episode of like freelancing and how to get into freelancing. But I think the few things I do want to say for anybody that might be interested in it is like having that padding was extremely helpful, because it gave me the luxury of being able to say no to projects, I didn't think were a good fit, and not have to be desperate about taking on things for money. And also, I had to promise my parents that if I didn't make the same amount, my first year freelancing as I did a full time job, then I would go back to a full time job. And that made me really work hard. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+I kind of like that though. It's it gave you that the here's the line that I need to meet and like giving yourself that drive and meeting those expectations, which sometimes it's like being freelance or you know, any of that, like, you have to hustle, like going into a job and like, it's just like, I have to do this work. And I know that someone's taking care of that part for you. But when it's on you, you have to hustle too. So yeah, that's really cool. I like that having that like line in the sand. Yeah, + +

+

Shirley Wu
+thank you. Yeah. For the projects. I think one of my first favorite projects is like the the Hamilton one. It's called an interactive visualization of every line and Hamilton is such a long name. But um, it's basically a what we call in the data visualization world a scrolly telling where as you scroll, the visualization animates. And then there's certain stories that I kind of weave together with the visualizations from my analyses what I learned about the musical and at the very end, I give like an interactive visual tool for exploring the lyrics, the theme, the recurring themes, and the characters. That one was a big one, because it was the first time like, my work has gotten that amount of attention. And, um, it made me realize two things that I'm the first thing being that what I thought was like this little thing, this little data visualization thing that I liked doing that feels kind of silly and not serious could actually reach people. And there was like, a lot of people that were like, Whoa, I didn't know coding could be so cool. And there was actually a lot of women young women that were that were like, I'm taking a CS class right Now, and I didn't know that code could be so beautiful. And that was like, Holy crap. And then my favorite tweet was like, this mom tweeted me that like, she and her son were learning how to code together. And that they were big Hamilton fans, and that when he got back from school that she was going to share it with him. And I was like, Oh, my God, like, I didn't know my work can bring like a mother son together. And it was a very beautiful moment. Wow, that was kind of like I'm + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+moved by. That's amazing. + +

+

Shirley Wu
+Thank you, thank you. That was like one of the big mental shifts of like, I think I had, I had, I have this tendency to not take myself seriously or downplay myself. So that was like one of the big moments where I was like, kind of a confidence booster. And then there were another one that I got to work with my friend naughty, and The Guardian, the US Guardian team on a project called bust out. And there was this big investigative journalism piece about how American cities buy bus tickets for their homeless people to kind of essentially shuttle them to another city. And that was the piece in which it was a big one that like, actually, there were like, actually inspire like policy talks. And, and that was a moment I was like, oh, again, this silly, this thing that I thought I was just doing when like silly thing I was doing can actually be serious and actually, like, have an impact. And that was really cool. And then I did a few others, more for like art museums. And I did one with SF MOMA that made me realize how much I appreciated creative freedom, and how much I loved art still, because it was being an artist was like a four year old dream that like when I was a four year old, and I gave up on it, because I realized that it's hard to make a good sustainable living as an artist. And then I realized that was also the moment I realized that I love data visualization, because it's the closest thing to art that I can still get a tech company to pay for. Yeah, and I think one last one is a project I did call legends, which is a 3d visualization of women, Nobel Laureates. And that's when I realized that out of the almost 1000 Nobel laureates, only 5053 are women. And that's, + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+yeah, that's so little, yeah, I have + +

+

Shirley Wu
+a whole reveal with that project where each woman is representative to Crystal and you can like, like, navigate amongst them and read about their accomplishments. And if you kind of like quote, unquote, like fly up, you can see them arranged by decade. And you can see how few of them there are per decade. And then the reveal is that each of the stars floating around them represent one of the 893 or 190, something men that have gotten the award. So that's also really informed kind of the topics, the datasets that I'm interested in since, yeah, that was a + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+lot. Oh, I love it. I mean, because I've seen a lot of these pieces. So hearing you talk through them is like really exciting, too. And one thing that I'll just say that stuck out to me that I've always loved about your work, and even did data and visualization in general. But I think I've always seen you take it to the next level. It's not just a dataset, it's it's, it tells a story like the Hamilton one, it's telling a full on story. And even just the last couple that you said there, too, it's pointing out that there's this clear problem or misrepresentation of women. But it tells us whole story. And it's done very beautifully. And so it's like true real world data that draws attention. And it's not just like me sitting there reading a bar chart or, you know, a nice little part pie graph. Like, it's not that. And I think that that, to me is really much where you've tied the art and data to tell a story. And I think it is super powerful. So but I get it too is like sometimes you get in your own head. And you know, you're like yeah, I mean, no one's gonna care about this so much. It's really cool, but like, they don't care, but they do. And that's really cool. Yeah, thank you. Obviously, you've been doing freelance for a while now. Your peers still doing some freelance, I think but it's also you've done a new journey, which is going back to school. What made that change happen? Yeah, I + +

+

Shirley Wu
+actually I'm not freelancing currently. And I decided to not freelance out all for the two years I'm in school. I just couldn't handle both. I think I'm like a very like one track minded person. But yeah, thank you for asking. Um, so one of the opportunities I got while I was freelancing is that I started this project called Data sketches with my friend, Nadi. Bremmer, who's absolutely amazing. Like, she just creates beautiful, stunning, but like, also, like you were saying, like, visualizations that have a story that like, is very much like, brings people in, we worked on a project called Data sketches, which we actually talked about a little bit on a previous episode. And the premise of data sketches was 12 topics. And for each topic, we both make a data visualization from scratch, and we write about the data gathering process, the data exploration, the design and the code. And we got the opportunity to write a book or turn all of those documentation into a book. And, and, and that was an amazing process. But homeboy, I was so burnt out. And that was kind of our one of our previous episodes was about what it's like to write a book. But I realized, once we turned in the manuscript for that book, that I had, like spent a whole month just staring at my work and staring at my words, talking about my work. And I was so burnt out that I was like, I don't think I want to look at my work anymore. Like, I don't think I want to do what I used to do. Which is extremely ironic, because one of my like, when we first signed the book deal, and I was like, Oh, I hope this gets us more clients in the space that I'm doing it like, I hope it gets us or it gets me more clients working on projects that I love. And then we turned in the manuscript. And now I'm like, I don't think I want to do this anymore. And so I went through like a good few months of burnout, where I was like, I don't know what I want to do, which was like, very like, didn't help that it was middle of a pandemic. But also, I think it was just really weird to have something that I used to love, which is like coding and AR and data vis and like, not want to touch it anymore. And that was when I realized, like, I think I want that was when I realized, like what I still love is the learning. I think what I've always loved, like we mentioned before is like learning new things. And I think more than data visualization itself, what I loved was that there was so much to learn, and trying to get better at the craft. And I think once we had written a book, I felt like I had learned all that I wanted to learn in that field. And and so that's why I decided to go back to school, because what I realized is + +I love learning, learning stimulates me, but also that one of the things that I do still love is trying to tell stories with data, like finding those nuggets of stories is really exciting. So I'm now back at grad program at New York University called ITP, which is kind of this program at the intersection of art and technology. So using emerging technology to make art. And I'm here because I've had kind of this like yours long dream of like, what would it look like if I can take the data visualizations that I created for the screen? But instead of something flat and two dimensional? What if it becomes a whole, like physical world immersive experience? And what would that be like to tell a story? So that's what I'm trying to explore here of like, what are the technologies that enable that? Is it even possible? But also, what does it mean to kind of shift from like a freelance, you know, I think this is another thing I've been doing a lot of like, and like reflection and this is another thing of like, I've always tried to make myself small. I think it's just my background of being Chinese woman and being like a woman in tech. I think I've always subconsciously or unconsciously made myself small and like, so what does it mean for me to transition from kind of like an Icee of like a designer developer to something more like a creative director role, like what does that look like for me? And what does it look like to be a creative director that can tell data stories in a lot of different mediums? So that's what I'm trying to Explore hair. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+I love that. No, I love how you just like you bridge the gap to more learning. And then like, here's where I want to go with in the future. Maybe before we fully close out, or I have one question that if you were to do something different, I feel like you're doing different things. So this might be a little different in asking it. But like, if you didn't do tech at all, what would it be? Like? If you started over? What would you choose? Oh, no, it's not in finance. I know that I + +

+

Shirley Wu
+did that and decided not to do that. I don't know. Maybe I'm just like, so hyper focused on when I was a kid, I wanted to be an artist, I wanted to actually for like a like, brief blip of time, I was like, I want to go to Pixar and be like a computer graphics. person, I didn't even know what computer graphics really meant. I was like 10. And so there are dreams I've had when I was a child. But I think what's exciting for me now is that I've, I'm closer and closer to accomplishing those dreams, but from a path that I would have never imagined as a child, which is the tech part. Like I think I would have been like a mediocre artist professionally. But I think weaving technology into it has been really like using code using software for the creative expression has been so fun. So I can't I don't know how to imagine. Even Even if I'm saying even if I say artist, like I can't imagine being an artist without the tech part now. I don't know another can like chill, retire you traveling around the world be like a career. Because that would be like if you take the tech Oh my god. Okay, hopefully short story when I was in Japan pre pandemic, hi. We met this person that split his time between San Francisco and Tokyo. So he would like you know, do half the year so he would I he would do the spring months and Tokyo because spring is beautiful in Tokyo, then he would do the summer months in SF because you know, like summer in Tokyo is sucks. Thank you would do the fall months in Tokyo because it's again, so beautiful with the like the color change, and then you would go back to SF for the winter. And then he like gave us his business card because everybody in Japan has a business card. And it just said, I can't even remember his name anymore. But it says something like travel, travel yoga Wine Enthusiast. That's my life goal. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+Sounds pretty good. Yeah, I like that title. That sounds really nice. That's really cool. Yeah. All right. As we close out, what would you like to leave the listeners with a piece of advice or any last words, + +

+

Shirley Wu
+there's something that I've been thinking about a lot while I've been back in school, which is that I'm obviously on the older side of the student demographic on my program. And a lot of the other students are much younger, like, maybe straight out of undergraduate or like only a few years out of there. And they have like a hustle and drive that I no longer feel. I just feel really tired. And I want to take it chill. And so I've been trying to be better at taking it chill. And so I've been trying to remind myself that I'm I put in the time in my 20s. And I'm reaping the benefits of that now. And my taking a break now and taking it slow is a gift I can give a give myself in the future because I'm sure I'll also reap the benefits of my taking a break from the hustle and the quick pace. And then workaholism and just taking some time for myself to really like I guess give myself space to figure out what it is that I want to do next and not get swept away with like the hustle of everybody around me especially because it's New York and then I don't think that was any sort of like sage advice for any of our late and like listeners. But I hope that if anybody feels the way that I do right now, having gone through two years of a pandemic and feeling really burnt out and not really sure about life. I hope that at least is helpful. + +

+

Ryan Burgess
+No, that's super helpful. Well, thank you so much surely for taking the time and you know, sharing a lot of interesting background. I hope our lives Sisters really enjoy it Thank you + +

+

Shirley Wu
+Thank you Ryan + +

+`; + return transcript; + }; \ No newline at end of file