Finally got Pandora to generate FNIS animations -- Future clarity needed on output folder location/setup!

[mlemieux7316]

TLDR: Although I never installed FNIS/Nemesis, so no chance to conflict, Pandora v3.1.0 wasn't generating FNIS animations for me. I tried downgrading to v2.3.0, accidentally ran without the specified output argument, then it worked, so it was either of those. For completeness, I went back to v3.1.0, and all are still working. Some clarity on a few questions raised below could help us understand how to avoid this.

Hi all. I am both happy my animations are all now working, but frustrated I can't tell you exactly why.
I recently installed the latest Pandora (at the time, v3.1.0) on a rig that has never had either FNIS or Nemesis installed. The animations it generated upon first launch were all new and had no prior engine or output to conflict with. However, I soon noticed that all mods relying on FNIS animations were not working (no crashes, just absent of animations). I mostly played through it, but the "why" started to bug me!

The "fix": seeing one reddit user who solved some problem with a prior version by downgrading to Pandora v2.3.0, I uninstalled the latest version and tried that one. The reason 2.3.0 was suggested was because that's before the -tesv argument was introduced, and it shouldn't apply to me as I have only ever had one standard Steam Skyrim installation on this rig, located in the x86 Program Files (I know, I know...), but otherwise no Wabbajack or mod collections or any other reason why the path should be different from registry.

Here's where things get frustrating. Because I didn't do this carefully enough, and because the lack of clarity / consensus on how to properly structure the startup arguments is maddening (seriously, why two separate versions with single and double dash?? some examples with colon, some no colon; some examples of space after colon and no space....what's going on), the -o argument didn't seem to work, because the anims were generated but the Output folder I made was empty (I emptied when uninstalling the former latest version). I really wanted to avoid this, since I'm guessing it's difficult to find the animations for future replacement/removal when generating into Data (and sure enough, I can't find them...seriously where are they?? They work, so they are somewhere...) Therefore, I cannot say if the version downgrade had anything to do with them generating properly, as it might have been that the solution was simply generating the files into Data instead of the dedicated output folder I made, at the author's recommendation. After the animations worked from all that (however it happened), I upgraded back up to 3.1.0 and it's all still working.

Which brings me to my final request for clarification: How should one set up the Output folder? Where exactly should it be placed? I put originally put mine as a Pandora Output folder in the Data directory; that didn't do it (or maybe 3.1.0 was flawed...can't say). If it is supposed to be like that, nothing else to ensure they are in the game? No need to allow Vortex to recognize it somehow? It seems rather clear for MO2 users, but for Vortex users (like myself), or anyone who uses any other mod managing method, I can't find anyone anywhere across the interwebs who can say where that Output folder should be (as if it could be anywhere...on a separate drive?? one example in the documentation seemed to suggest the mod staging folder, which seems ULTRA-wrong, but again no clear specification on where is said explicitly). You might think all is well, since most (Nemesis) animations are working, and you see output populate there (when you manage to use the right argument structure), including a copy of the dummy FNIS.esp (even tho 3.1.0 came with the dummy .esp in the Data folder, which I had activated; I suspect it's more a product of the engine treating the Output folder as the Data folder and making sure that dummy .esp is there...anyways). However, when you take a closer look, the Nemesis output seems to be in the Nemesis_Engine folder Pandora comes with, and only the standard player/dragon/etc movesets from the patches Pandora comes with are there.

[mlemieux7316]

A quick follow up post:

1. Yes I saw v3.2.0 was released just a few days ago, but from a quick scan of changelog and re-read of the README, nothing mentioned seems to address the issues I was having.
2. The Engine.log with v3.1.0 never got placed in the Output folder, and I couldn't find it anywhere else, so I couldn't tell you what errors there were.
3. Forgot to say thank you for Pandora! I never used FNIS or Nemesis, but I have been modding long enough to know that both of those were rife with intermittent problems, and some by design as well, and it's still impressive that ~60% of my non-replacement animations worked on the first attempt, and very quickly. And it would take me a very long time to acquire the skills necessary to make something like this. So keep it up, Pandora is poised to resolutely be the future in this space. Maybe lack of clarity is the only actual issue here.

[zndxcvbn]

I think there is an instruction for setting the output folder here. In MO2 you can either specify the output folder via a setting or via the -o or --output argument. The colon does not play a role and should not interfere. But it is better to specify without it.
https://github.com/Monitor221hz/Pandora-Behaviour-Engine-Plus?tab=readme-ov-file#quickstart

[mlemieux7316]

Thanks for the reply, and the inconsequential nature of the colon puts my mind slightly more at ease. I realize I put a TL;DR, but I was using arguments, so I've read the ReadMe (many, many times, it's been a taskbar favorite..). The mystery still lingers for Vortex users (as I said, it's quite clear for MO2 because you can create empty mods).

[Eave64]

I use Wrye Bash and the only way to get it to work outside of the data directory was to put simlinks to all the files and then I could use the output function and then running a bat file with all of the output options in it inside of the data folder. Added benefit, when I upgrade I just delete the simlinks and put back symlinks of the new version. That is how I got it to work outside of the data folder, hope this helps others using Wrye Bash

[mlemieux7316]

I use Wrye Bash as a patcher and LO refiner, not mod manager, but I think your comment highlights even more so that we need some kind of guidance (as far as I can tell there's none) as to where the output folder should be located and set up properly..

[StheCat]

So what's the resolution here for Vortex users?