Symfony2 implementation

[romaricdrigon]

Hi,

A lot of fuzz is going around DDD + Symfony2 framework.

I think it would totally make sense to create a repository with recommendations about implementing DDD with Symfony2.
IMO, it should be a list of recommendations, articles and ressources (eventually bundles) ordered by topic and "severity".

Most importantly, it would be a starting point for discussion and debate.

I would like to work a little bit on that one, though at the moment there is no repository for. Anyone could create it or add me?

[cordoval]

👍 interested in the approach taken

[tyx]

I guess we could start discussion here ?

[cordoval]

well, this is not symfony specific. Imo I think the approach should be in a symfony related repository, so not here. But honestly I don't see symfony as the centerpiece, and we should probably be careful as DDD implies practices such as decoupling from framework 👍

[romaricdrigon]

I think it could get messy really quickly. We could be using an issue per topic for discussing.

[romaricdrigon]

Even better, we could be discussing on some PR. Sometimes writing stuff is the better way to get feedback and provoke reactions.

[cordoval]

👍 for creating a neutral repo

[shouze]

👍 ok guys, very good initiative. From our perspective with @tyx we're on the DDD way. I started long time ago this repo https://github.com/PhpFriendsOfDdd/specs it's not talking about Symfony. I can create another repo if you will, first of all in this case we have to name it, let me know.

[cordoval]

I am in 👍

[codeliner]

Symfony2, ZF2, Laravel, ... = Application layer
DDD = Model
What exactly do you want to achieve with this repo?

[cordoval]

it will be a practical example of how a team of interested and enthusiast world spread devs can build a very simple use case using CQRS + Event Sourcing + DDD using FOSS libraries and completing each other knowledge. Like a sandbox example. I vote for symfony independent (100% symfony-free) repo, but ultimately I care the less about what framework gets used 👍

[shouze]

@codeliner DDD is not just Model, it's also the Application layer, the one decoupled from any framework.

[codeliner]

@shouze yes and no. Sure DDD also influences the application layer and it is definitly more than just implementing a Model, but their should be no differences in implementing DDD with Sf2, ZF2 or plain PHP. Design decisions should be made based on the business not on the tools I want to use. Let's take my php-cargo-sample as a reference. You can put the CargoBackend in a Sf2 Bundle and it would look the same. More interesting questions are: Why should I use ES instead of an ORM. What is the difference between using CQRS and Application Services, etc. That is the reason why I asked what is the expected outcome?

[cordoval]

I think @codeliner asking those questions up front is undesired. The answer is that you cannot tell whether is good or bad for your project unless you see it in action and understand it. For that reason unlike a regular real life project this is a forced exercise, you don't have to pose any reason or fake scenario to force you to take decisions on business. This is a bad and typical answer I get on many mailing lists on DDD, they talk about domain and domain and never show the matter, for that let's use the mailing lists. For learning the methodology I say let's just force frame it that we ARE going to use CQRS and Event Sourcing, the answers to why will come at the end when we see how they work and understand every piece of possible or more common scenarios.

Asking too many questions up front is killing the learning of many and imo it blurs a simple field. Yes it makes people that understand more in shape for their consulting businesses but it does not help people that just want to learn it.

EDIT: by the way, nice example on the cargo, will check it closely

I would propose to tackle similar to Cargo and do it in symfony2 this time since that can rid of the time spent to understand that application layer which is softly relying on symfony2 DI. Other than that it will not be looked on as a dep but as just a practicality.

[codeliner]

@cordoval Asking questions is one of the most importants things you have to do when you want to apply DDD :-). Don't understand me wrong. I got your point, but I see a lot of these DDD + Framework xyz repos, but no one helps me getting better with DDD it just helps me in getting better with Framework xyz. What I think is a really good idea is this project: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/opendddshop, but unfortnately I can't see any progress their.

[cordoval]

i think rather than disagreeing we understand each other better with this discussion we need to discuss more 👍 so yeah let's create the repo somewhere and focus all discussion there, then spike it with some code, but let's go by parts and build a plan first. The questions can go but in issues and discussed, but those who want to stab things and propose can do so with code too. It can even be multiple branches with different approaches.