Diversity of tagging for ETCS signalling #371
Replies: 6 comments 9 replies
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The NL ETCS ignals can specify the shape of the sign (triangle or arrow). I am fine with adding support for general EU signals tagging by the way, good idea. For signals shared between countries. Does CTCS (based on ETCS) use the same signals? Should there be a EU prefix or no prefix? |
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Your proposition sounds good. If the NL ETCS get two shapes (as belgium and France), it's in reality the [TVM](Transmission voie-machine) ones (triangles) mixed with the ETCS ones (arrow). Both have the exact same function, but we can keep the shape tag as the triangles ones will apparently not be replaced by arrows. As far as I know, there is not other ETCS signs, because all the informations appear directly in the train cab thanks to eurobalises and GSM-R. For CTCS, I don't know and didn't find sources about it. It is true that CTCS is a fork from ETCS, but the fork was operated at the beginning of Chinese highspeed because of the slowness of European conception (during 2000's). There were a lot of changes since then. |
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Hello,
For There are two types of ETCS Marker Boards :
It is used to "unambiguously identify an EOA which protects one or a group of safety-critical points such as a switch, a conflicting route as entrance of a station, junctions, etc. where the driver requires supplementary information to identify the exact stopping location in addition to the display on the DMI (for instance where a release speed is provided)" If an MA is not available, the train driver needs a signaller authorisation to override it.
It is used to identify other points of the track the driver can overpass when an MA is not available.
Specifically for ETCS, there is also ETCS Track Conditions Marker Boards (pantograph marker boards and neutral section marker boards) and ETCS Level Transition Board. At the scale of ERTMS, there are also GSM-R marker boards. My sources are Harmonised ERTMS Marker Boards v1.04 and ETCS marker board definition v2 |
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Sorry, but I'm not a native english-speaker. Could you develop the achronyms you used ? |
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I copied and pasted the explanations from the documents without considering that not everyone is familiar with the acronyms used. All my apologies ! DMI = Driver Machine Interface | The screen that allows the driver to interact with the board systems. |
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Very nice. Then we can also specify the tag |
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According to your documents, there is more signs that I knew. Here are my tags proposals: level transition point : What do you think about them ? I tried to make some key easily understandable, logic and short as possible. Obviously there is some expert people in railway signs on openrailwaymap-github, so when there will be a consensus on this discussion, I'll expose my proposal on the international OSM forum. |
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I think for the pantograph/power EU signs, it would be nice to follow the guidelines used in other countries already. See e.g. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenRailwayMap/Tagging_in_Germany/El_Signals (Germany), https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenRailwayMap/Tagging_in_France#Electrified_Railway_Lines (France), https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenRailwayMap/Tagging_in_Netherlands#Electrification_(tractie) (Netherlands), https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenRailwayMap/Tagging_in_Luxembourg (Luxembourg) and https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Pl:OpenRailwayMap/Tagging_in_Poland/Pointers#Wska%C5%BAniki_na_liniach_zelektryfikowanych (Poland) The tags:
are already used in multiple countries, even when the So I would propose:
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It's much better than my initial proposal ! I see that you know how are the tagging schemes (when I don't and didn't think to check it before making my proposal 🙃). |
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I wonder if it wouldn't make more sense to tag ETCS stuff as Because ETCS can be used outside of EU, too. |
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I have just added the ETCS signals in the wiki page for the Italian signals, and looking at other pages the same stop marker is tagged in many different ways with different names and schemes for every state. It would be nice to find an agreement, I guess it would be also easier to render. As proposed before:
Then of course there are all the electricity ones, but at least the main ones standardised would be a great step, the others would follow. Can we try to get in touch with all the local communities? |
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I'd prefer long variants of the names for batter clarity: location_marker, stop_marker, level_transition |
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I have opened this page as proposal, but I'm still working on refining it |
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Does this proposal include pantographs, power and GSM-R signs ? |
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Not yet, but it could be added, it's still a draft for now. If you know something about that and you want to contribute you are welcome. |
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Hi,
I observe there is further tagging scheme for a single signal etcs. For exemple the ETCS block marker can be tagged:
I think that in the objective to harmonize the global tagging scheme and simplify the signalling tagging (that is already complicated), it is important to get an only way to tag the ETCS component regardless of he country.
My proposition:
railway=signalrailway:signal:position=*railway:signal:direction=*railway:signal:train_protection:form=signrailway:signal:train_protection:type=block_markerrailway:signal:train_protection=something easy and logicBeta Was this translation helpful? Give feedback.
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