Time Signature

[NoAliby]

I have created a full song in a 3/4 time.
When I export the Midi I cannot find where to incorporate any time signature.
So when I play it as a drum loop it defaults to 4/4 and so does not function correctly.
Any tips?

[NoAliby]

As a work around I used "MidiQuickFix" to edit the .mi file directly.
I delete the M:TimeSignature event line and insert the same event again with it set as 3/4
https://sourceforge.net/projects/midiquickfix/

[NoAliby]

which one did you use?

I use MidiQuickFix as noted earlier in the thread, as it enables easy access to EVENTS without the bloat of a fully fledged sequencer.

While tackling this I could also implement a way to derive the time signature from the pattern's length.

Deriving the Time Signature from the pattern length would not help me with my use of Hydrogen in programming my BeatBuddy, (unless there was a way of manually overriding that).

1. In BeatBuddy a drum Fill (within a loop part), or a drum Transition (when moving to a new loop part) requires the first beat of the next measure - it uses this to sync with the next measure, regardless of whether you trigger the fill or transition exactly at the start of the playing loop's measure or slightly delayed. That means the fill or transition for a 6/8 loop must have a pattern length of 7/8.

How come you want to set 6/8 as time signature while song size is set to 12/8? Was this done intentionally?

2. I make each loop part a single Hydrogen pattern for ease of transcribing live drumming and for exporting, which means if a 6/8 loop has two measures the pattern length in Hydrogen would be set to 12/8

[theGreatWhiteShark]

Ah, I see. You want to manually overwrite the time signature with incorrect values to cope with limitations of an external application/device.

In BeatBuddy a drum Fill (within a loop part), or a drum Transition (when moving to a new loop part) requires the first beat of the next measure - it uses this to sync with the next measure, regardless of whether you trigger the fill or transition exactly at the start of the playing loop's measure or slightly delayed. That means the fill or transition for a 6/8 loop must have a pattern length of 7/8.

Would programming the pattern in 6/8 and then extending it by an empty space to 7/8 yield the same results?

[theGreatWhiteShark]

Hey @NoAliby ,

You are on Linux, right? Could you check whether MIDI export works fine in this version of Hydrogen?

But you should backup your $HOME/.hydrogen/data folder beforehand.

[NoAliby]

You are on Linux, right? Could you check whether MIDI export works fine in Hydrogen-2.0.0-pre-alpha version of Hydrogen?

I haven't run my Linux box for a while, but will see if I can test it.

[theGreatWhiteShark]

You could also use the macOS or Windows version.

[NoAliby]

Hi @theGreatWhiteShark ,
That works as you described where it takes the length of loop and the subdivision.
(Screenshots show Hydrogen in the background with the MidiQuickFix window showing the time-signature in the Midi file.)

This appears to work (6/8) with conventional loops (patterns) that are only one measure or bar long. From what I understand this will be the same as having a series of multiple patterns, where the "prediction" uses the size and subdivision of the uppermost pattern.

It does not work (12/8 instead of 6/8) if someone uses a double measure in the pattern - a size of 12, which often could makes sense as many drum loops have two measures that are identical except for emphasis around the last beat (e.g. open high-hat)

If you have any "technical" or special case loops, such as what I need for the BeatBuddy loops, then this also needs editing in an external program like MidiQuickFix. (predicts 7/8 instead of 6/8)

My perspective:

1. Using the size / subdivision as the basis for the time-signature is a better default than 4/4. The manual should explain that the size / subdivision of the first pattern (the first pattern in order of the song might be logical, but the first pattern in the list, i.e. top, would enable you to have a "first pattern" just being 2 clicks).
2. To be useful for ALL ways people are using Hydrogen there should be an option in the export window to change the predicted Time-Signature - this would be fantastic. (See my mock-up of the export window)
   

[NoAliby]

What does the BeatBuddy needs the time signature for if it's not able to handle it properly?

Like any sequencer, BeatBuddy needs the time signature for any Midi drum loop, so it knows when a beat one occurs.

Would it help to add an empty 1/8 after the 6/8 pattern?

That is an idea. For a 6/8 song I could create the size 7 with a subdivision of 8 by using one size 6, div 8 pattern followed by a single 1 size, div 8 pattern and then join the two in a song and export it to midi. With the v2.0_alpha code, would that predicted the time signature as 6/8?

[theGreatWhiteShark]

From a music theory side, a full song should only have one time signature for the entire song. Multiple columns and multiple patterns - whether sequential or simultaneous, regardless of individual sizes - will all combine into one song, and it will still just have a single time-signature. This appears only once on the music score. In the same way only once in the midi file.

Hmm. It's been a while since I had music classes but I'm pretty sure I have seen a couple of signature changes in sheet music. Wikipedia even has dedicated paragraphs in the Time Signature page regarding this matter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_signature#Mixed_meters and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_signature#Irregular_bar

As for MIDI, the Standard MIDI File Specification explicitly states

As with Set Tempo changes, the Time Signature can change throughout an SMF [...]

(right at the bottom of the document)

[theGreatWhiteShark]

With the v2.0_alpha code, would that predicted the time signature as 6/8?

Yes. But, in addition, it would add another time signature of 1/8 after passing the first pattern.

[NoAliby]

You are correct that you can change time signature, but it is not common. When it does it would be for an entire chorus or bridge not a single measure or bar.
Adding a 1/8 would make it disfunctional as the metronome would loose the 6/8 rhythm and go...
1 2 3 4 5 6, 1, 1 2 3 4 5 6 ...

[theGreatWhiteShark]

When it does it would be for an entire chorus or bridge not a single measure or bar.

Hydrogen should only add a time signature event in case the size of the longest pattern in a column differs compared to the previous one. If it's all the same size for the entire chorus/song, there won't be an additional time signature event.

Adding a 1/8 would make it disfunctional as the metronome would loose the 6/8 rhythm and go...
1 2 3 4 5 6, 1, 1 2 3 4 5 6 ...

And that's a problem? I still don't fully understand the problem with your BeatBuddy.

You want to program a pattern like this

1 2 3 4 5 6 7, 1 2...

but the trick the BeatBuddy into thinking it is

1 2 3 4 5 6, 1 2...

instead? But by having 7 ticks instead of 6 in the pattern, you also move the end of the track encoded in the MIDI file. All following MIDI notes will be off one tick. E.g. if you ever want your pattern to be the basis of a more complex/longer one and activate another one in the second column, The click track will be off as well.

If it is just about the click within the BeatBuddy, you may be better off with having a dedicated click track - pattern you activate in the same column.

[NoAliby]

Can you start a topic where you can share changes and comments or bugs in Hydrogen-2.0.0-pre-alpha?

• I like the way you have presented the hit-hat open.
• I could not get sound playing. I tried to change the Midi Out and the Audio settings but no sound.

[theGreatWhiteShark]

Can you start a topic where you can share changes

Good point. I added this page to our wiki. Is it useful?

you can share [...] bugs in Hydrogen-2.0.0-pre-alpha?

You can open an new issue. This is makes book keeping a lot easier than having threads in discussions.

I could not get sound playing. I tried to change the Midi Out and the Audio settings but no sound.

Could you start Hydrogen with hydrogen -VDebug and post the log messages?

[NoAliby]

Thanks @theGreatWhiteShark, the V2 summary page is very useful.
I will check the V2 installation again on my other machine and let you know. If it dies not work I will add a new ISSUE, use the - VDebug option and include the files.