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Specifically, units the use projectiles with dumb projectile behavior need a minimum range, otherwise, they will cause a mismatch of they fire at something that's too close
It would make some changes to gameplay but I don't think as much, it would mean close contact could be 'abused' with micro.
So a Quad could come really close to a Crusader and not be shot at any more.
I dont think this is a big problem, if any, in ZH, because tanks have a very low weapon speed: 300/400. We (Contra Mod) have at least 600 weapon speed on weapons, which makes matters worse
You can make a test map containing all DumbProjectile units and test them out individually. Steps to reproduce are:
Select a tank
Force fire as close as possible to the firing point/bone
Look for projectile detonation FX (graphics + audio) at the bottom left corner of the map. If they appear in that spot (and thus disappear from the force-fired position), that means the game would mismatch in MP
Steep terrain contributes too, because it tilts the tank and you can, so units must be tested on tilted terrain too.
In this setup, projectile doesn't spawn at all, even though a small MinRange value may solve the issue on flat terrain. So MinRange must be even higher than the one tested on flat terrain. If any such problematic unit is found, reducing the WeaponSpeed will probably be the best solution. E.g. 400 to 300. I believe MinRange increase would have a higher gameplay impact
First you need to test if any weapons in ZH have this problem. It's a general engine limitation, but it's not confirmed if any projectiles have this issue in vanilla ZH yet. Changing minimum attack range works of course, but it is bad for gameplay. Units cannot attack enemies standing close, so they'd drive back and then shoot.
I tested bug with Nuke Battlemaster + modified WeaponSpeed and was able to reproduce the issue. With WeaponSpeed smaller than 633 it was not possible to reproduce. It was also not possible to reproduce it with SpectreGunShip and its SpectreHowitzerGun (999). All other WeaponSpeed values are 500 or lower, so we hopefully need to not be concerned about this issue.
Ideally it will be fixed in Thyme however, so that there is no possibility of it being a problem ever again.
Before Contra X units had a minimum shooting range to fix this. They removed the minimum shooting range while still keeping the projectile velocities and avoiding mismatches. I think this needs to be discussed more. Thyme is not going to be finished anytime soon.
Apparently it was fixed in Contra X by simply using MissileAI instead of DumbProjectileBehavior. This does affect the gameplay however but it's barely noticeable. So I guess there still is no ideal solution.
That makes sense. I do suspect that the Missile behavior is more expensive than the Dumb Projectile. This means there is a chance that there can be a little performance degradation when using this. Just to keep in mind.
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ZekeDlyoung commentedon Sep 5, 2021
Specifically, units the use projectiles with dumb projectile behavior need a minimum range, otherwise, they will cause a mismatch of they fire at something that's too close
xezon commentedon Sep 5, 2021
Jundiyy:
xezon commentedon Sep 5, 2021
PredatoR:
xezon commentedon Sep 18, 2022
PredatoR
xezon commentedon Sep 18, 2022
DumbProjectileBehavior:
Object USSBenderGunShell
Object GLAAngryMobMolotovCocktailProjectileObject
Object GLAAngryMobRockProjectileObject
Object InfernoTankShellUpgraded
Object InfernoTankShell
Object NeutronCannonShell
Object NukeCannonShell
Object OverlordTankShell
Object BattleMasterTankShell
Object GenericTankShell
Object MarauderTankShell
Object ScorpionTankShell
Object RangerFlashBangGrenade
Object SpectreHowitzerShell
Object Nuke_OverlordTankShell
Object Nuke_BattleMasterTankShell
xezon commentedon Sep 19, 2022
I tested bug with Nuke Battlemaster + modified WeaponSpeed and was able to reproduce the issue. With WeaponSpeed smaller than 633 it was not possible to reproduce. It was also not possible to reproduce it with SpectreGunShip and its SpectreHowitzerGun (999). All other WeaponSpeed values are 500 or lower, so we hopefully need to not be concerned about this issue.
Ideally it will be fixed in Thyme however, so that there is no possibility of it being a problem ever again.
xezon commentedon Dec 29, 2022
Issue potentially manifests in function
WeaponTemplate::Fire_Weapon_Template
at the very bottom.Watch out for other calls to function
Get_Weapon_Speed
too.kajxqeirscl commentedon Aug 5, 2023
Contra devs have found a solution for this recently. I don't know the details but it was in the Contra X Beta changelog.
commy2 commentedon Aug 5, 2023
There are obvious work-arounds, but all with major undesirable side effects. I would wait for Thyme on this one.
kajxqeirscl commentedon Aug 5, 2023
Before Contra X units had a minimum shooting range to fix this. They removed the minimum shooting range while still keeping the projectile velocities and avoiding mismatches. I think this needs to be discussed more. Thyme is not going to be finished anytime soon.
xezon commentedon Aug 5, 2023
If you can find out what they did, then please post here. It can help other mod developers who run into this issue.
kajxqeirscl commentedon Aug 5, 2023
Apparently it was fixed in Contra X by simply using MissileAI instead of DumbProjectileBehavior. This does affect the gameplay however but it's barely noticeable. So I guess there still is no ideal solution.
xezon commentedon Aug 5, 2023
That makes sense. I do suspect that the Missile behavior is more expensive than the Dumb Projectile. This means there is a chance that there can be a little performance degradation when using this. Just to keep in mind.