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Improve the docs of Hijri AstronomicalSimulation #7325
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@@ -57,6 +57,19 @@ mod ummalqura_data; | |||||
| /// | ||||||
| /// There are either 6 or 7 30-day months, so the length of the year is 354 or 355 days. | ||||||
| /// | ||||||
| /// # Crescent moon visibility | ||||||
| /// | ||||||
| /// Islam says that months begin when an observer first sees the crescent moon. | ||||||
| /// | ||||||
| /// For centuries, astronomers have been developing criteria for predicting crescent moon | ||||||
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Member
There was a problem hiding this comment. Choose a reason for hiding this commentThe reason will be displayed to describe this comment to others. Learn more. I think we shouldn't land this change. This change pushes the docs even further to the direction of suggesting that modeling religious Hijri calendar use by approximation is something that internationalized software should do and that ICU4X is suited for doing. I think we don't have evidence that this is what we should be suggesting to app developers who delegate i18n expertise to ICU4X. I think we should have the discussions we are having in parallel to this pull request about scope. I think we shouldn't be leaning into ways to rationalize keeping shipping My preference would be to steer the docs in the direction of the following:
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| /// visibility. However, in most regions, atmospheric phenomena can impact visibility, making | ||||||
| /// such predictions only an approximation of ground truth. Hijri calendar applications should | ||||||
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| /// such predictions only an approximation of ground truth. Hijri calendar applications should | |
| /// such predictions inaccurate. Hijri calendar applications should |
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I prefer to say "approximation of ground truth".
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I think in civil contexts, which is what our calendars are targeting, observational calendars are the odd ones out, not UAQ/tabular.
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I don't think any countries use Tabular Islamic. It is used by a few small sects of Islam.
Most countries use observational calendars. Saudi Arabia and I think Turkey publish predictions that match their observations.
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what do sophisticated telescopes and observations have to do with UAQ? I also wouldn't necessarily call them "predictions", they are correct by definition
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They still claim to do observations. The calculations predict what their fancy infrared telescopes will see. I don't know what happens if they can't observe their prediction; I think they just claim that it won't ever happen, and they go to extreme measures to make sure that the crescent is visible when they claim it will be.
This is a good article on the subject:
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/eid-2025-does-saudi-arabia-report-impossible-moonsightings
Here's an example image of a crescent sighting done with this method:
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That article literally says that their observation claim is BS because they've claimed impossible sightings.
Yet astronomers say it will be impossible to see the moon - even with optical aid, such as telescopes - on Saturday.
prominent Kuwaiti astronomer Adel al-Saadoun declared that it was “impossible to see the crescent this evening” in the Arabian Peninsula.
Last year, in 2024, Saudi Arabia announced on 6 June that Eid ul-Adha (the second Eid of the year) would commence in ten days after the new crescent moon for the month of Dhu al-Hijjah was sighted.
That was despite astronomical bodies insisting it was impossible for the moon to have been sighted.
The UAE-based International Astronomy Centre has likewise explained that in the Middle East it will be impossible to see the crescent on Saturday, even with new technology.
It also clearly states that UAQ is a calculated calendar.
Saudi Arabia uses a calendar called the Umm al-Qura, which is based on calculations and marks key dates years in advance.
“Turkey’s calendar is pre-calculated and their formula is more or less the same as Saudi Arabia’s,” Ahmed explained.
“But they’re transparent. They don’t claim they've seen the moon, like Saudi do. They're clear about what their formula is.”
I don't think we should echo SA's scientifically dubious claims and just state UAQ as what it is.
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ok, fair point. I changed it to: "The primary exception is Saudi Arabia, where the KACST publishes official predictions of crescent timings for multiple centuries."
Moved to #7330
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| /// These rules use the relative positions of the Earth, moon, and sun to predict the | |
| /// These rules use astronomical calculations to predict the |
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It says "astronomical calculations" on the previous line, though...
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link?
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Added a citation
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linking to an undocumented method is not a citation
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what does "approximation" mean in terms of a calendar? the dates are either correct or incorrect
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The dates are correct according to the Shaukat criterion. Those dates often match what governments observe, but not always; they are therefore an approximation of ground truth.
Part of the objective of this PR is to be more clear about what these rules are, because I think we haven't really understood what they are. We've been quick to dismiss HijriSimulated as "inaccurate: never use", without explaining what it actually does and how to use it correctly. If you start by understanding "these rules are an approximation", then you can use them correctly. I went back and re-read Reingold and other sources when writing these docs.
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| /// of the ground truth. | |
| /// of reality. |
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I prefer "ground truth" over "reality" because I really do mean the ground truth, defined by governments. The ground truth varies from region to region. There is no single "reality".
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then please state what the "ground truth" is. we've been using this term a lot internally but it's not clear for clients what it means (and it's not even clear to me, because apparently it's not reality). is it the moon as seen by mathematics? is it the moon seen by some dude? is it the moon announced by some authority?
also in other places
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I don't think this recommendation is correct. You use UAQ if you need UAQ, tabular if you need tabular, and observational if you need observational (whenever that is). If you need observational and don't have sightings, UAQ is not an alternative.
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I'm happy to remove this whole paragraph
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Islam doesn't "say" anything. According to Islam...
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Done