Add a non-normative explanation of "proper name" to 3.1.2 Language of Parts understanding#5135
Add a non-normative explanation of "proper name" to 3.1.2 Language of Parts understanding#5135patrickhlauke wants to merge 6 commits into
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Easy for you! your name is almost always pronounced correctly... Are you asking for my review because my name keeps getting misspelled as “Ghiacomo” or “Gaicomo”? 😄 Jokes aside, and setting aside the fact that that normative wording doesn't perfectly reflect how things work in practice (anyway, this is what the normative wording says), I think your change does a good job of clarifying the concept of "proper name"! |
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Gi' a comma, I think this is a net improvement so we should accept it and refine if we have the energy. That said my "inner pedant" (almost as big as the "outer me") wants to refine this a little further. It isn't so much the concept and definition of proper names that changes across languages, as how they are treated. Which is pretty variable even in English. Beginning with pronunciation, because that is what was behind the original proposal during the development of WCAG 1 in the 90s, I would like the statement to be clearer that proper names are treated according to somewhat unpredictable customs: Ian Jacobs (sometime WCAG editor and participant in this group) and Ian Fleming (who wrote the original James Bond novels) share the same first name, but pronounced differently in english (the relevant native language in both cases). "Albert Camus" in common english usage is typically spoken with the english pronunciation of "Albert" and the (approximate*) French pronunciation of "Camus" - WIkipedia follows (or substantiates) that, giving the French pronunciation of his surname only in its English language entry. And notably, one of his most famous works, "L'Étranger" is known by two different names in English - "The Stranger" or "The Outsider". In English "Ypres" is often pronounced "wipers", but something like "iprhe" in French (the original language) while Cannes is mixed between "can" and "cans", and Calais is generally "kalay". Although as noted there are also a lot of unpredictable rules for proper names in translation, I think we don't need to get into that aspect. But if we want to do so then it matters to make sure what we say is correct. Again, I'm inclined to go with something like "there are a lot of unpredictable conventions, rather than simple rules". Proper names can often be used across languages without translation. The simplest counter-examples are probably well-known places. London and København are often translated in nearby languages, Roma and Paris less so, Buenos Aires and Oslo rarely if at all. At the same time, being well-known proper names these are widely recognised by people and software in practice. (In particular, English forms are generally recognised in non-english languages even if speakers of those languages would use a different form by default). In Spanish "Carolus III Rex" - King Charles of various commonwealth countries - is generally known as "Rey Carlos", (son of "la Reina Isabel") but the french musician Charles Aznavour is commonly known as Charles (and so am I in official dealings, and the US musician Ray Charles goes by the same name in Spanish and English).
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@chaals if either your inner or outer pedant can propose changes to the PR itself (without turning it into a treatise), by all means. my main concern though here is trying to address the question of "would a site fail (be 'illegal'/'break the law' in places that require 'WCAG conformance') for not putting a |
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I didn't have time (yet) to trim my treatise into a PR I liked. Which is
how I got to the conclusion (see the first line: We should adopt this).
I'm on board with you - the main concern is explaining what you need to do
to conform to WCAG (and why that is what you need to do).
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Co-authored-by: Adam Page <adam@adampage.net>
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Nice job squaring the circle!
Supersedes #5098 - adding a generalised explanation of what "proper names" are in the 3.1.2 understanding document, rather than attempting to make a normative term definition (allowing for some more handwaving).
Preview: https://deploy-preview-5135--wcag2.netlify.app/understanding/language-of-parts#intent (just after the big Note)
Relates to #4113 and #1174
Closes #4094